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Posted by mmarshall on 02-15-2016 02:48 PM:

Naturals

First off this is in no means ment in a negitive way toward any person or dog/line some like to twist things
Some are taking what I said on another thread totally out of context
A Natural is one that can find track and tree game with out human help
That is what I want in a coon hound pup 7 to 14 months old some times the age I start taking them is desided by time of year they become old enuff to go spring /fall
I want to see as much natural ability as I can so I choose not to interfere with Mother Nature by trying to speed the processe with drags and caged coon while waiting for that pup to get some age you are now teaching/training the pup to track and tree game
My first coondog pre teens was a mutt no hound in him but treed me a lot of coon I trained him the same as you would teach a dog to shake sit fetch and so on what are the chances he would reproduce a natural born coon dog not good but he could reproduce a pup I could train to tree coon probably

I'm just not in this sport to train coon dogs I'm in it to hunt coon dogs that's me and how I feel about it and jmo do it how you want and what works for you maybe I'm totally wrong
Breeding for Natural instinct or fast learners I feel there is a differents

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Sawblade on 02-15-2016 04:24 PM:

Instinct

Mark, natural instinct is the key ,it always has been. You can't get it without breeding for it and when you see it you know you got it. The best way to tell is the first time they go to the woods "when they are old enough" they run track and tree. IT"S AWESOME !!!!

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-15-2016 04:33 PM:

"Natural Instinct"...... Kelly, I know that you can train a trashy dog not to run deer. But can you train a dog that is naturally straight to run deer?

Posted by mmarshall on 02-15-2016 05:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
"Natural Instinct"...... Kelly, I know that you can train a trashy dog not to run deer. But can you train a dog that is naturally straight to run deer?

I know you asked Kelly but my two cents yes I bet I could with enuff reps in a controlled invierment and I started him very young but he would not do well as a deer dog stud 😛

Posted by mmarshall on 02-15-2016 05:42 PM:

Re: Instinct

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Mark, natural instinct is the key ,it always has been. You can't get it without breeding for it and when you see it you know you got it. The best way to tell is the first time they go to the woods "when they are old enough" they run track and tree. IT"S AWESOME !!!!

Yes it is Kelly totally awesome
Just wish it happend every time

Posted by Sawblade on 02-15-2016 06:11 PM:

Richard

I sold a pup one time to a fox hunter. He ran it with his other fox dog as a pup and sold it later on because it was checking tree's every time it would loose the track. It would switch off a fox track and tree on den tree's during the day rather than run the fox. HMMM wonder if it had any natural instinct.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-15-2016 06:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
"Natural Instinct"...... Kelly, I know that you can train a trashy dog not to run deer. But can you train a dog that is naturally straight to run deer?

Isnt that how many deer hounds are trained? Dont they just start running them in a pack with other dogs who show them how?
Peer pressure is a real thing...in humans...and animals. Dogs are decended from wild canines who for several million years were born into a pack...learn from the pack, hunt in a pack and usually see the end of their life in a pack.
Now we have changed some of that instinct as a pack animal with a couple hundred years of breeding for tree dogs who often work alone...but there is still that instictual million year old pull to run with the pack.
I think...and this is just my opinion... But i believe to take pups from the first day they are ready to start and make their first few months of exposure to coons and treeing in a controlled pack session is not a good thing.
I say this because it eliminates any of the pups natural coon treeing instinct out of the picture and replaces it with peer pressure from the rest of the pack which influences that pup to follow the leader and do as the rest do. That pull, many times is greater than the more recent traits that have been instilled over the past hundred or so years. That peer pressure and influence from the "trainer" combined can effectively change the natural tragectory of a pups natural instinctual progress.
Some might say...well isnt that a good thing? Isnt getting them to tree at a young age good...even if its with a pack of dogs where at least one knows what its doing?
Sometimes for a very short time...maybe yes. Most times no and definatly not over and over and over again at an age where most pups are developing habits that will stay with them all their life.
Follow the leader is a terrible way to train a dog you want to win with. As soon as I see a young dog start to run and tree with an old dog...i usually start hunting it at least 50-75% of the time by its self so that it does not fall into the habit of following the leader. Many "trainers" just keep hunting the young dog with the other dogs until they think they have really got the hang of it...by then that young dog has repeated the follow the leader to the tree scenerio so many times...its become habit. Remember folks...dogs learn by repetition and that means good habits and bad habits. If you want to make a great me too dog....hunt them in those early months between 6-12 months in a pack where another dog always does the work...then keep it up for another 3-4 months and that should be enough to alter the natural path they would have taken and turned them into a me tooing pack rat for the rest of their lives. Now having said that, I will say that their are a few...maybe 5-10% who can endure this as a young dog and still revert back to their natural instictual path later...but usually they will have to at some point be hunted alone for several months for this to take place.
I like to see natural ability from the start. I like to see it before the use of any props, drags, or cage coons. Thats how I know its there and there in a big way. These are the dogs I like to use for breeding...not man made tree dogs where any treeing ability had to be wrestled from them by peer pressure, props and lots and lots of drags and cage coons. But these types are not overly common in many lines...and they are made harder to identify because the first thing most people do is start working their pups on cage coons or pay someone else to. Im not saying you shouldnt work a pup on a few cage coons...but not so early that you need peer pressure to get them to pay attention and bark at it and not over and over again day after day with a pack of other dogs in the day time. This is teaching them...but it is teaching them to follow the leader and do as the other dogs do...everytime and thats not going to help a dog dominate the competition in a nite hunt cast.
Let me be clear here...im not saying you have to have a natural to win ...most coon hounds have some ability bred in...so with a lot of work and enough time...it can be brought out and that dog can go on to win...but is that the type of dog we want to breed to in hope of getting naturals?
I will say this, we could really grow our breed if we produced more naturals that gave the average hunter a better success rate at starting and training up a great redbone. Many give up on their young dogs because they dont start as easily as they hope...and my feeling is that starting them the wrong way creates many bad habits that will have to be dealt with down the road before they can be the winners their owners hope for.

__________________
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Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
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(((( Current Favorites ))))
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Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
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Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
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Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
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Posted by Chris Snyder on 02-15-2016 08:06 PM:

Time Spent

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw

I will say this, we could really grow our breed if we produced more naturals that gave the average hunter a better success rate at starting and training up a great redbone.

This is why the TW breed is so popular. If you have to be a dog shrink to start one, or crank out 200 nights a year on one dog just to get one to do it's job, it's not worth the time in todays world.

I know I don't have the time to fool with something that doesn't show some natural skill at a young age. I'm sure there are others that think the same way.

The age of the "2 yr. old started dog" or an 18 month old, "pup" are gone the way of the Dinosaur. You want better you have to be willing to keep standards that are uncomfortable for some.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-15-2016 09:29 PM:

Re: Time Spent

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Snyder

I know I don't have the time to fool with something that doesn't show some natural skill at a young age. I'm sure there are others that think the same way.

Agree Chris I know I don't and Im shore not going to spend the first 6-8 months of there life trying to teach what should all ready be bred in them I'll just wait till I feel there old enuff to go hunting no puppy pre school here
I guess I'm old school it's Sink or swim

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-15-2016 10:12 PM:

When I see redbones who get on win streaks and finish out to grand nite at two or three years of age and or win or place in big hunts....its a pretty safe bet that they had a lot of natural ability and an owner who knew how to let it develope correctly. Its just hard for a dog to win like that at that age and not have those things. I think on average the redbones do lag the walkers and some other breeds on how naturally they start and how fast they start and how fast they peak...but I think its a smoother trajectory for the redbones with less set backs in many cases(less of a roller coaster).
My first two redbones, Outlaw Billy the Kid and Outlaw Timber Girl were born 25 years ago and they were both naturals and both titled out to Dual Grand and won big hunts including redbone days as two year old dogs so naturals are nothing new...but I am not sure we have really increased the number of them we reproduce in the redbone breed each year by as much as other breeds have over the past 25 years...they are still not all that common.
It probably should be one of the top priorities of redbone breeders because the easier a pup starts...and the less work it takes...the more this breed will grow in popularity and success.
I usually expect, demand really, several natural starters from a litter when I make a cross and in recent years I have not been dissapointed...but there is plenty of room in our breed to improve upon the overall average in that very important area.

Posted by B Weatherford on 02-15-2016 10:21 PM:

Time of year, age, and Coon Population

I have went through a bunch of young dogs in the past years. I can say as of two years ago I had my first natural. He was no work at all. I did nothing to him any different than any other young dog. Exposed him to it and he took off. He ended up being a little tight on track no big deal I was happy that it didn't take an act of congress to get him going. After looking back at him and how he started I think there were several things that played a roll in his success. Time of year was late spring. His age was about 7 months old. His very first time being exposed he was vocal and hunting. It wasn't to long Kittens were down and moving. I think It all fell in place for him to be sucessful. One he was ready to start. Two, it was a good time of year for a young dog. Three, there were plenty of tracks for me to get him on. Do I think that this will work for all dogs. No ,but I do know this. If you expose a young dog to hunting and you don't keep him after what he needs to be after constantly he will find other things to be after. I don't have a lot of coon. So for me time of year matters. They are all different and we as handlers or Trainers need to be able to realize that. I will not start a young dog in the Winter time where I live. I do think his natural ability played a roll. I have a female right now that has it. They have been the two easiest dogs to mess with Tree power and wanting to go. I think you can find these traits before spending a lot of time on a dog. Don't know if this is a natural to anybody else but It is to me. Both of these dogs had one thing in common Huey and Reckon were on there bottom side. Different Sires on top. It takes two to make a dog but there is something in common. Good Luck to all this year!

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Posted by Adam Wingler on 02-16-2016 02:19 AM:

Tons of good info here but to me Weatherford took the words out of my mouth as I was reading along. I believe it's very likely the coondog world has many more naturals, but those started at the wrong time in the wrong place pick up a few bad habits and it's all downhill from there.

Guys I have and do work my butt off at times, at least I feel like I do, with young dogs just to "setup" good scenarios to get em going. Honestly so much work and money at times I get nearly burnt out. At certain times of the year I may go 8 drops and hit 1-2 really good running hot tracks for a young dog. It's a slow progress, much slower than I like. All that said, natural or not I'm not sure I'd ever notice if I went by most folks definition.

So to me it's different, or at least I look at it differently. A natural means one that KNOWS it suppose to HUNT from day 1. At least hunt something and put the end to the track without quitting. And I don't mean one that knows to just "tree", I've had my share of those culls.

Maybe we're talking about the same thing, I dunno, but I've seen 1 in all my years that treed me a wild coon at a real young age, right out the gate. But the poor idiot needed a bullet later on so big deal.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-16-2016 02:51 AM:

I do have to agree that in some areas of the country it is a lot harder to start young dogs...epecially in the winter. Spring is probably the best time for me if i had to pick. Its easy for me to take young dogs where they are bound to run over a good track within a couple hundred yard in the spring and summer...and that has to be an advantage.

Posted by Barnyard on 02-16-2016 06:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam Wingler
Tons of good info here but to me Weatherford took the words out of my mouth as I was reading along. I believe it's very likely the coondog world has many more naturals, but those started at the wrong time in the wrong place pick up a few bad habits and it's all downhill from there.

Guys I have and do work my butt off at times, at least I feel like I do, with young dogs just to "setup" good scenarios to get em going. Honestly so much work and money at times I get nearly burnt out. At certain times of the year I may go 8 drops and hit 1-2 really good running hot tracks for a young dog. It's a slow progress, much slower than I like. All that said, natural or not I'm not sure I'd ever notice if I went by most folks definition.

So to me it's different, or at least I look at it differently. A natural means one that KNOWS it suppose to HUNT from day 1. At least hunt something and put the end to the track without quitting. And I don't mean one that knows to just "tree", I've had my share of those culls.

Maybe we're talking about the same thing, I dunno, but I've seen 1 in all my years that treed me a wild coon at a real young age, right out the gate. But the poor idiot needed a bullet later on so big deal.

GOOD COMMON SENSE POST!!!

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Posted by mmarshall on 02-16-2016 02:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam Wingler
Tons of good info here but to me Weatherford took the words out of my mouth as I was reading along. I believe it's very likely the coondog world has many more naturals, but those started at the wrong time in the wrong place pick up a few bad habits and it's all downhill from there.

Guys I have and do work my butt off at times, at least I feel like I do, with young dogs just to "setup" good scenarios to get em going. Honestly so much work and money at times I get nearly burnt out. At certain times of the year I may go 8 drops and hit 1-2 really good running hot tracks for a young dog. It's a slow progress, much slower than I like. All that said, natural or not I'm not sure I'd ever notice if I went by most folks definition.

So to me it's different, or at least I look at it differently. A natural means one that KNOWS it suppose to HUNT from day 1. At least hunt something and put the end to the track without quitting. And I don't mean one that knows to just "tree", I've had my share of those culls.

Maybe we're talking about the same thing, I dunno, but I've seen 1 in all my years that treed me a wild coon at a real young age, right out the gate. But the poor idiot needed a bullet later on so big deal.

Good post Adam I'm shore some born with the natural instinct to find track and tree game can be born with some big holes also but if they ran and treed a coon in just a night or two of hunting with no other experience with a coon that is natural instinct to me
I've seen and heard about way more back yard super stars 3 to 6 month olds not make it because it was taught not natural
I also agree it my take many more nights to get that right track in diffrent parts of the country
Seems more and more people are doing more teaching then hunting in all breeds do we want easy trainers or naturals jmo

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-16-2016 02:49 PM:

Are some pups/young dogs "natural" born leaders? Can you train a pup/dog to be a leader? If you hunt your pup in a pack will the natural born leader step up? If you "single a dog out" and hunt them by themselves, will that teach/train them to be a leader? If you get or train one of these leaders can you then hunt them in a pack? If you don't have a leader do you then have to teach them to be independant? I am just wondering if whether a pup is a leader or a follower influrnces how they should be trained? If you have a stud that is a natural born leader will his pups be natural born leaders? Do you have to have a natural born leader to have a big time winner? Is that what separates the winners from the big time winners? I like this thread. I am learning a few things even at my age.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-16-2016 03:07 PM:

Mark/Kelly I hope that y'all don't mind me posting on your thread and asking so many questions but I have a real "thirst" for knowledge. I wish that there was a coondog college that we could go to. They could have classes for trainers and some courses on coondog philosophy. Those would really be interesting.
When you are looking for a stud dog for your good female, do you look for one that started early and was a natural even though they did not go on to become a big winner? Or do you you look for one that might have started a little slower and needed some training but went on to become a top hound and big winner? That is if you had to pick between the two.

In other words is there a difference between breeding for natural early starting pups and breeding for pups that will become big winners? Or are they both the same?

Posted by jerhovt on 02-16-2016 03:40 PM:

I like this thread!! Richard asked all the questions I had and then some

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Posted by chrissweet on 02-16-2016 03:56 PM:

Great thread

Knowledge from men and women who have been around is our coonhound college. What works for one might not work for another. But with threads like these a person can copy another's success or piece together a bit from different people and make their own. Thanks to all that share not just this topic but all.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-16-2016 04:14 PM:

Leader should be the best dog in the pack finding the track tracking it treeing it balance is key natural starter instinct with ability is what I want
A natural should not need started just hunted jmo
If a dog was started in your back yard before it was hunted was it a natural you will never know and why do it if you shouldn't need to unless your training it to start earlier then it would naturally now do you have a early starter ?

Posted by jerhovt on 02-16-2016 04:28 PM:

So would you consider showing a dog a coon before you take to the timber started? Or letting them have fresh coon hides as a pup to fill there playful needs (chew toy)? Im not being sarcastic I really would like to here opinions and others thoughts on this.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-16-2016 05:05 PM:

First off, I am not trying to be negative or comment on any one person's way of training/starting young dogs/pups. I am only trying to learn myself. Are you "training" a young pup to tree when you "expose" them to a live coon or hide at an early age or are you just giving their natural instinct a chance to come out? Just as you are doing when you take them to the woods. What is/are everyone's thoughts on this?
In some parts of the country you are just exposing them to the woods when you take them hunting and there are a lot more animals/tracks out there than there are coons. Does it make a difference what part of the country that you live in?
I realize that there are two different schools of thought on this and I am just looking for different opinions. Caged coons, turned loose coons, drags and hang-ups or just take them hunting? And do you take them hunting by themselves or with a "pup starter"? Do y'all think that any one way is the best and use it? Or do you use a combination of ways? Or do you use different methods for different pups?
We really do need a coonhunter's college but this board is the best that we can do. I would surely appreciate everyones input/ideas.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-16-2016 05:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jerhovt
So would you consider showing a dog a coon before you take to the timber started? Or letting them have fresh coon hides as a pup to fill there playful needs (chew toy)? Im not being sarcastic I really would like to here opinions and others thoughts on this.

I think a lot of people try to start their pups too early and when they do not see what the hope to...they resort to coaxing and teasing and using peer pressure to get some results.
I usually do not do anything with a pup before its 6-8 mo old...but let it be a pup. I may take it for lots of walks in the day time or at night just to let it wonder and watch how curious it is. Depending on the time of the year i may or may not expect to guide them over a hot track on one of our walks. In the spring I usually know right where to go and regularly take pups for walks along creeks where I know there are a lot of dens nearby. If I dont see a pup actively open on a track or check trees after a half dozen times of walking through an area like that between 6-8 months old...sometimes I will set a live trap in the area and check it every night. If I catch a coon I will not walk up to it...but will go back to the truck and release the pup and walk in that direction and wait till the pup finds it. If the pup barks at it or acts interested in it i will hook a lead on the pup and tie it out of reach of the trap and then release the coon and let the pup see it run off. About 80% of the time...that is the extent of my use of cage coons and I will never use another one. If the pup barks and acts like it wants to go after the coon...i wait a couple minutes while petting the pup...but not whooping it up too much....then I release it. If it runs after the coon and puts its nose to the ground when it cannot find it by eyesight...that is what I want to see. Whether it finds the coon or not is not a big deal at that point. i want to see it using its nose to try to find what it just saw run away into the darkness.
If it does that...then between 7-12 months I will take it 2-3 times a week if the weather is good with a good open trailing, honest, straight coon dog that doesnt try to lose the pup. I will try to cut them right on or near where they can always strike a hot track. Most of the time...after just a few tracks the pup is opening on track some and/or with a little encouragement I can get it barking at the tree. I may or may not put a coon out to this pup...it really depends on the pup and how it acts. If it will tree naturally without ever having a hold of a coon...then I usually do not give it anything but praise until well after I split it off and start hunting it by itself. If you start a pup without putting fur in its mouth...you will never need to put much in its mouth. Outlaw Billy the Kid had a total of 6 coons killed to him when he finished to Grand Nite Champion in 1993. I had a theory...even back then that a true natural treed coons based on instinct....and not just to get the coon killed to it and I proved a pretty important point to all of my hunting buddies who at that time killed their young dogs almost every coon.
Now I have had dogs who were not what I called natural easy starters....and they made good coon dogs and even some big winners...but it took a lot of work on my part and I learned some hard lessons about the side effects of too much exposure to cage coons, drags, peer pressure from pack hunting and killing too many coons to a dog. My training methods have changed and developed over the past 30 years since I started in this sport. I was trying new things back before it was cool...and when I found something that worked better than the old school way that most train...I stuck with it, tried it on every dog and if the results were consistently better...i adopted it into my program.
One of the worst things in this sport is all of the old school wives tales about training...especially about breaking dogs off of off game. Some are so outrageous its hard to believe anyone could ever believe them.
Same goes for many training techniques...especially those that promote killing every coon to young dogs. If its bred into a dog ....you just do not need to reinforce it with fur in their mouth every time they tree a coon!
Think about the worst trash runners you have ever seen...think about how hard it was to break them....
Now tell me, how many times did you ever shoot a deer or fox so they could chew on it? How many times have they ever caught one and chewed on it?
So why do they run them? Because before dogs were bred by man to tree...they were bred to trail and chase...and before that for millions of years they chased down animals for food. Its hard to overcome millions of years of instinct with just a hundred or so years of breeding for tree dogs.
But, if a dog has that treeing instinct bred in...it doesnt need fur in its mouth every time...all it needs is a little praise from its handler when it does right and correction when it does wrong.
If you have a well bred dog with natural instict bred in to tree coons...its life will be comprised of only about 10% training and 90% correction. The training is mostly encouraging it to do what comes naturally and the correction is to keep it from reverting back to doing many things that nature instilled into dogs over millions of years...which are still in every dogs genes to this day.
Breeding for naturals makes everyones job easier in this sport...the dog, the trainer, the handler. Not all winners are naturals from birth...but from a breeder standpoint...they should be! Now I am not saying we should cull all those who are not naturals...because thats probably about 85% of the breed. But we should put greater emphasis on breeding dogs who were naturals and who are from lines that produce a high % of naturals....because thats how we create more.

Posted by Pastor Mike on 02-16-2016 05:27 PM:

Good Thread

I have questions too.

Should we keep pups in a pen til they are 8 - 12 months old.....never mess with them.......then take them out 2 times to the woods and they should track and tree a coon? If they don't, should we just cull them on the spot?

Just curious. I guess I'm thinking if they are natural......we should not need to let them run loose on farms either when they are pups.

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Soggy Bottom Redbones

GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Soggy Bottom The Frog Dawg (current reproducers list)
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom The Bull Dawg
Soggy Bottom T-Top Miss Dottie
RIP
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze HTX (Former#1 Reproducer)
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Stella
GRNTCH GRCH Soggy Bottom T-Top Shadow
NTCH CH Soggy Bottom Bomber's Red Wire (Pigeon- former #1 Reproducer)
NTCH GRCH Red Cedar T-Top Lexus
CH Soggy Bottom T-Top Locket

Mike Laster
540-392-2441
pastorlaster@aol.com

Posted by mmarshall on 02-16-2016 05:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jerhovt
So would you consider showing a dog a coon before you take to the timber started? Or letting them have fresh coon hides as a pup to fill there playful needs (chew toy)? Im not being sarcastic I really would like to here opinions and others thoughts on this.

No I wouldn't call that started but I'd call it lightly trained to start
why do we do it if we want natural early starters ?

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