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-- Question about this months Coonhound Advisor. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928442554)

Question about this months Coonhound Advisor.

The short version is that it is allowable to poke a stick in a den to determine if a coon seen is dead or alive. It IS NOT allowable to do the same thing for the purpose of determining if a coon is in there or to move to where it can be seen.

Ok, the problem is that in most states, doing any of the above is a violation of the state game laws. In Indiana, it is definitely illegal to stick anything in a den for any reason. So where does that leave the above ruling?
Also, considering all the confusion with other rules that really aren't at all confusing, it seems a bit much to believe the average cast will actually differentiate between poking for one reason but not the other reason.
In the interest of being consistent, it would seem better to just rule like they do on shining a tree, light, squaller, nothing else.
In the scenerio used in the Advisor column, why not just have each cast member look in and vote, dead coon or live coon?j

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana...earers-hunting/

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Illegal to hunt over bait in lots of places. Yet ukc will not take a stand on that either and the hunts are full of feeder bucket coons. So my take on is. Stick the stick on in there. May not be legal here but if I see a coon in a den and cant tell if its alive or dead. Im poking it. I also drive over the speed limit and have trespassed to get my dog.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

My question is how long does a coon got to be dead not to smell alive to a dog anymore. Anouther point I don't see in the rules were it says the coon has to be seen breathing most these guys now days if there ain't bones in there they are going to plus it lol !

But as far as I know, UKC has never stated in print any position that specifically allows or prohibits baiting coons. I thought they had only said we allow it if it don't violate law. But I'm not very up on feeder rules since I have never hunted where it is an issue.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
But as far as I know, UKC has never stated in print any position that specifically allows or prohibits baiting coons. I thought they had only said we allow it if it don't violate law. But I'm not very up on feeder rules since I have never hunted where it is an issue.

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UKC simply clarified the rule with the understanding that if it is illegal in your state that you have enough sense not to break the law because it isn't against UKC rules.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
UKC simply clarified the rule with the understanding that if it is illegal in your state that you have enough sense not to break the law because it isn't against UKC rules.

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Its hard to be a law abiding citizen and be a serious competition coon hunter

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Are you talking about the tree poking thing or the bait thing or both?

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

That makes sense.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

We have a law here about not only disturbing dens or nests but no blinding of wildlife with lights. My sunfire will blind the fire out of a coon. That wpuld actually make all coon hinting illegal here good thing I pay most of it no mind.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

sticks

in ohio we cant use dogs to Run Deer! we break that law a lot! never get fined! lol

__________________
C.JONES

Can you score a coon by sticking a phone in a den and taking a picture? Or minus because the picture was a possum?

quote:

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Originally posted by cowboy9
Can you score a coon by sticking a phone in a den and taking a picture? Or minus because the picture was a possum?

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__________________
C.JONES

quote:

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Originally posted by cowboy9
Can you score a coon by sticking a phone in a den and taking a picture? Or minus because the picture was a possum?

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i have seen ukc sanctioned hunts where they was hunting off feeders where it was illegal to hunt off bait in the state , its sorta like setting in the get away car at a bank robbery you never robbed the bank all though your just as guilty as the ones that did ..

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
We have a law here about not only disturbing dens or nests but no blinding of wildlife with lights. My sunfire will blind the fire out of a coon. That wpuld actually make all coon hinting illegal here good thing I pay most of it no mind.

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__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
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UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


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Re: Question about this months Coonhound Advisor.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
The short version is that it is allowable to poke a stick in a den to determine if a coon seen is dead or alive. It IS NOT allowable to do the same thing for the purpose of determining if a coon is in there or to move to where it can be seen.

Ok, the problem is that in most states, doing any of the above is a violation of the state game laws. In Indiana, it is definitely illegal to stick anything in a den for any reason. So where does that leave the above ruling?
Also, considering all the confusion with other rules that really aren't at all confusing, it seems a bit much to believe the average cast will actually differentiate between poking for one reason but not the other reason.
In the interest of being consistent, it would seem better to just rule like they do on shining a tree, light, squaller, nothing else.
In the scenerio used in the Advisor column, why not just have each cast member look in and vote, dead coon or live coon?j

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana...earers-hunting/

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Sleepy head hit the nail on the head!!!

__________________
Aint nothing but a yard dog.

Because of this post in the Bloodlines we had a question on a cast Saturday night. Basically what happen was a dog treed on a snag about 20 foot tall. Part of the coon was visible in the top. There was a question by some of the handlers whether it was a coon or just fur or whatever. Any way the tree was tapped on with a stick at the base of the tree. It was then apparent it was a coon. One cast member then wanted to delete the tree because he said the den had been disturbed under the new advisor guide lines. How should this have been handled? I said it either had to be scored plus or determined that it was disturbing a den and scratch the dog? If it is a scratching offense that really opens up a can of worms, because every tree that has any kind of hole or nest will not be able to have vines pulled or tapped on with a stick or anything else.

Because of this post in the Bloodlines we had a question on a cast Saturday night. Basically what happen was a dog treed on a snag about 20 foot tall. Part of the coon was visible in the top. There was a question by some of the handlers whether it was a coon or just fur or whatever. Any way the tree was tapped on with a stick at the base of the tree. It was then apparent it was a coon. One cast member then wanted to delete the tree because he said the den had been disturbed under the new advisor guide lines. How should this have been handled? I said it either had to be scored plus or determined that it was disturbing a den and scratch the dog? If it is a scratching offense that really opens up a can of worms, because every tree that has any kind of hole or nest will not be able to have vines pulled or tapped on with a stick or anything else.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lance Laymon
Because of this post in the Bloodlines we had a question on a cast Saturday night. Basically what happen was a dog treed on a snag about 20 foot tall. Part of the coon was visible in the top. There was a question by some of the handlers whether it was a coon or just fur or whatever. Any way the tree was tapped on with a stick at the base of the tree. It was then apparent it was a coon. One cast member then wanted to delete the tree because he said the den had been disturbed under the new advisor guide lines. How should this have been handled? I said it either had to be scored plus or determined that it was disturbing a den and scratch the dog? If it is a scratching offense that really opens up a can of worms, because every tree that has any kind of hole or nest will not be able to have vines pulled or tapped on with a stick or anything else.

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I don't see a difference between poking a stick in a hole and beating on a tree with a hole in it. Both are trying to "disturb" a coon in his place of refuge and get him to look or move out. It sure "disturbs" me when someone beats on my door in the middle of the night. I have never seen/heard anyone complain about pulling on vines to "disturb" a nest that a coon might be in. I have even seen hunters pull on vines and dislodge a nest without anyone saying a word. The only time that anyone says anything is when someone mentions cramming a stick into a hole. In general practice, this is the only thing that will get you scratched.

More stupid rules...way to go ukc.

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

quote:

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Originally posted by runnin rebels
More stupid rules...way to go ukc.

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