UKC Forums - Early Starters

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Early Starters (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928432041)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-14-2015 04:58 PM:

Early Starters

You used to have to wait until a Redbone was 2-3 yrs old before they would start treeing. We used to just take young dogs along with us starting when they were about 14-18 mos old. They would go and run tracks with an older dog but wouldn't start locking down on a tree until they were 2-3 yrs old. Now you see a whole lot of young Redbones that will tree at 6-10 mos old. What has happened? And sometimes I wonder if this is a good thing or not? I just hope that we haven't done what the walker dog people did a few yrs back. Do we really want a bunch of Red walker dogs just so that we can win competition hunts?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-14-2015 05:10 PM:

The walker dog people bred all of that quickness and tree in their dogs to try and win comp hunts. Several yrs back you never saw a dog that would split tree with a coon. It was all about who had the quickest tree dog. But they got so much that they it was embarrassing. So they started breeding more accuracy and independance in them. Now it is all about deep and lonely. Redbones were always accurate but could not win against those super quick tree dogs. So a lot of people started breeding more tree into their Redbones in order to compete. Now that we have plenty of tree are we going to have to go back to independant and accurate? We just can't seem to catch up.

Posted by oklared on 10-14-2015 05:15 PM:

We don't catch up because we don't produce enough baby reds

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-14-2015 05:27 PM:

Why do you think that we don't produce enough pups? We live in a democratic society where production is controlled by the laws of supply and demand and not the government or Kennel Club.

Posted by elvis on 10-14-2015 05:59 PM:

The only thing that starting early does for a pup is get his master excited about him and therefore gets him hunted instead of setting in a kennel. BUT, it sure dont mean he is gonna finish out a bit better than a later starter.
I learned a long time ago not to get too excited about those early starters, ive seen too many of them not be any better at 3 yrs old than they were at 1.

Posted by oklared on 10-14-2015 06:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Why do you think that we don't produce enough pups? We live in a democratic society where production is controlled by the laws of supply and demand and not the government or Kennel Club.

LOT A FOLKS HOLLAR ABOUT NUMBERS , THEN PRODUCE MORE LIKE THE SPOTS DO

Posted by oklared on 10-14-2015 06:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
The only thing that starting early does for a pup is get his master excited about him and therefore gets him hunted instead of setting in a kennel. BUT, it sure dont mean he is gonna finish out a bit better than a later starter.
I learned a long time ago not to get too excited about those early starters, ive seen too many of them not be any better at 3 yrs old than they were at 1.

Posted by Sawblade on 10-15-2015 02:05 AM:

maybe

Richard ,I think your answer is in your question. You said years ago we didn't even start taking young dogs until they were 14 to 18 months old . If that is true then it would be pretty hard to get one to start at 8 months old. HMMM.

The first dog I ever had we didn't take him hunting until that same age, 14 months. My Dad said it was a waste of time to try any earlier. looking back ,I think he was wrong.

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NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 02:43 PM:

Oh, I would start taking them at 10 -12 mos old but they wouldn't tree. It wasn't from lack of trying on my part. I turned a lot of coons loose that just "got away".

Posted by jerhovt on 10-15-2015 03:18 PM:

I would Imagine every dog matures at a different pace like people. Its the ones that you dont have to teach to hunt run tree etc.. I think would be better the age they mature i think depends on individual dog and there envirement and doesnt matter as much as the natural ability
they have. I know its nice not having to wait and hunt them rite off but I would think everyone would be a bit different again new to this competition stuff but thats my thoughts rite or wrong
Also I think the Redbones just need more experienced handlers I meen look at how many walkers are in pro handlers hands that has to give them an advantage rite?

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 03:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jerhovt
Also I think the Redbones just need more experienced handlers I meen look at how many walkers are in pro handlers hands that has to give them an advantage rite?

I wonder why those Pro handlers are hunting walker dogs? But a good Redbone can "make" a Pro handler.

Posted by jerhovt on 10-15-2015 03:38 PM:

There hunting walkers because its a trend!!! B&Ts win to but there are still way more walkers why?People are creatures of habit like everything else. I had Walkers they were good
but the redbones Ive seen are as good more honest and a heck of alot easier to handle. I know Im getting taught the ropes of handling for sure Ill figure it out. Ive tried all the breeds now and Ive settled on the Redbones and I was looking for competition dogs you wont catch me going back to the other breeds not colorblind just know what I like.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 10-15-2015 03:50 PM:

Getting it done correctly at 6-10 months of age has never meant much to me, but waiting until they are 3? That would take a special set of patience.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 04:08 PM:

No one has said that they can do it correctly at 6-10 mos. They are only starting then. It still takes them until they are 2-3 to learn to do it correctly. That is where the patience comes in. But you are right, it takes less patience when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel at 6-10 mos old. It sure is frustrating to wander around in the dark for 2 yrs wondering if they are ever going to start. Most of us just give up now. In the past, I used to do a lot of wandering around. A lot of people say that as you get older you develop more patience but the opposite is true in my case.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 04:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
I've seen too many of them not be any better at 3 yrs old than they were at 1.

Marv, I have had some that were better at one yr old than they were at 3 yrs old. I always figured that was my fault. I should have just left them alone rather than try to "train" them.

Posted by jerhovt on 10-15-2015 04:16 PM:

But in the end I wonder which is more frustrating waiting for them to mature or hunting them while they still have to much pup left in them couldnt that possibly develop bad habits down the rd?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 04:39 PM:

In my humble opinion, the problem comes in when you start forgetting that they are just pups and start "pushing" them. You have to remember to just take them hunting and progress at their own speed. I always got into trouble when I would try to start training on them and not just let them play. Let them babble and be excited/mouthy. Let them run deer. They should eventually get tired of it and break themselves. A 6-19 mos old pup should never have a shock collar on them at night. And would you rather they learn bad habits at 12-14 mos old or 2-3 yrs old? Which would be easier to change/teach/break? Now this is just one person's ramblings. Different people have different methods and I have never trained a World Champion....yet. So, what do I know?

Posted by jerhovt on 10-15-2015 04:57 PM:

Personally I never run a shock collar unless a situation calls for one I think its to easy to correct them when you arent 100% on what there doing. One dog I have here if you put a shock unit on them it will not hunt it will look like garbage and it is not actually the opposite. So my thoughts on shock units are mixed. Heck I had no tracking equipment till about 6 years ago till then it was all footwork.

Young dogs
I hunt them as many nights as I can and if they get to playing to much I bring them home and swap out the young dogs keeps them rotating I dont like to get after them when there young seen alot of dogs ruined that way have done it myself live and learn.
Also a dog under a 10 months I would call an early starter and around 16 months they should be at least started Im not patient enough to wait longer than that so far so good with what I got.

-Richard-
You seem to do well enough in the hunts and I think you know more than you lead people to think!!

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 10-15-2015 05:21 PM:

richard

don't let Richard --the KING fool you he does a lot oh wandering, all over the US , so its got me wondering if he'll every wander up to upper Pa. southern NY state and try out our hunting, yes rich that's an invite lol

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 05:29 PM:

Be careful what you ask for. I have been looking for a place to stop in for a night or two halfway between Tn and Vermont.

Posted by jerhovt on 10-15-2015 05:50 PM:

There ya go Richard head on up!! I told ya theres an open invite just let me know when your coming. I know the country around Hershs place there is pretty nice looking.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 10-15-2015 06:04 PM:

ya know we have the NY STATE purnia hunt this weekend, load up and be there

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-15-2015 06:20 PM:

"All who wander are not lost". I am leaving in the morning to wander around Illinois for a few days and then see if I can find my way up to Wisconsin. It would have to be sometime in November.

Posted by turkeyking67 on 10-16-2015 02:31 PM:

Illinois

I better go shut the gates on the river

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-16-2015 03:17 PM:

Dean, walk out in your backyard tonight and listen for Ol Boone treed. We won't be far from you, just over in Effingham/Flora area.

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