UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Are they reproducing to form... (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928425148)

Are they reproducing to form...

I haven't written on here in quite some time, but I was asked several times, so I'll reply here to answer all who are curious. I hunted with Banjo III, Big Jim and John Henry... Banjo III was freakishly fast and as accurate as a dog with that type crazy speed could be. If I were a better handler back then, and played to his strengths more, he could have done some really great things. Jim has the prettiest mouth that I've ever heard on a dog (any breed). He started in 4 trips to the woods and has always been accurate with me (and I'm sure still is). Jim was the most fun to hunt of the three, because he's always been so well rounded. John Henry came back to spend a summer with me when he was about 2 and half years old. He was the most independent of the three, and would ALWAYS have a coon. He was super smart and easy to call because he'd most always be by himself. John was not as loud as the other two, but he was the most consistent by a small margin. Banjo III had the most physical talent by a little wider margin, but was the least consistent of the 3.

Paul and I talked about the line, to include all the big names (Banjo, Tex, Big John, Bozo, Hank, Mo, Dan, Banjo III, Jim, John Henry, Candy, Cat and some I'm missing I'm sure). He hunted with most all of them at some point, and also told me that he'd had this conversation with Allen and others. Everyone agrees that if that crew of dogs were all alive, and turned out together, they'll all just be another dog in that pack.

That said, this line consistently produces awesome dogs and produces to form, but that form has not closed the big show either, so... they all have strengths and weaknesses, HOWEVER... "The One" is still to be seen. This line has PLENTY to contribute, but it doesn't seem capable of doing it alone. Just my opinion...

Good luck to all, with whatever line you're hunting...

Re: Are they reproducing to form...

quote:

---

Originally posted by RamonJT
Banjo, Tex, Big John, Bozo, Hank, Mo, Dan, Banjo III, Jim, John Henry, Candy, Cat and some I'm missing.... that if that crew of dogs were all alive, and turned out together, they'll all just be another dog in that pack.
.....this line consistently produces awesome dogs and produces to form.......HOWEVER... "The One" is still to be seen....

---

"THE ONE"

The way I understand "THE ONE" cross is soon to be made

Maybe there is more than just "THE ONE "

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

I counted 7 on that list that I hunted with. All were coon tree'rs but if I had to pick one, give me tex.

Time will tell

How many of these dogs were collected. I know B3, And Moe. Big Jim still here. What about John Henry, Tex, Bozo? I forgot Preston he has one left on Banjo.

__________________
Honest competion hunters make the hunts fun! Cheaters never win!!!!!

Ramon, what are the consistent characteristics that they all possesed? I have only hunted with a couple of them but they were super independant, tight on track, deep hunting dogs.

Re: Are they reproducing to form...

quote:

---

Originally posted by RamonJT
....That said, this line consistently produces awesome dogs and produces to form...

---

Elvis

Paul, Alan and Mr. Vaughn all agreed with you... They all said that Tex was the most well rounded of the entire bunch. Only issue is that he was one of the few that didn't seem to reproduce. I'm told by the grape vine that his Grand Pups are back in the mix though... We'll see!

Secrets

Ramon, that means Allen been laying low. What was it used on? Come out with it Allen.

__________________
Honest competion hunters make the hunts fun! Cheaters never win!!!!!

Richard

The " form" as you asked is the reason you bred to Jim. Get deep , not say a whole lot, get by themselves, get treed quick with the coon more then without, with above average to loud mouth. Every time I talk to Rex about Jim it sounds as if he is describing Mandy II. I have talked to a few people that have said that these dogs are just as good as some that have won world championships. If it was just two dogs in a hunt, mine and the world champions night after night on EQUAL footing. Time would prove that they are just dogs that make as many mistakes as others dogs, including mine. It does take a special person, with enough money to fund the challenge of hunting and a dog that does not make many mistakes and a handler that is capable of the challenge. I think the object is to produce dogs that have a high degree of drive, mouth, tree power that can get by themselves and are not a me too type dog, to be able to compete at a high level. It is also helpful to be drawn out with a guide that will put the cast in coon. I do believe that this line of dogs can produce dogs to this "form" and hopefully someone will get one and have the skills, money and luck to train it and possibly win at a high level in the night hunts. I have talked to Brian Ratliff and as much as he loved Jon Henry, it was probably better for the dogs winning if he went to someone that would push him in the bigger hunts. It takes a lot of people and money to keep a line of dogs progressing and would like to extend the right hand of fellowship to you. Welcome to the FIREBALL club.. Preston has a hat for you… One thing…If you breed back to the line of dogs where you came from, you will have to turn in your hat. You are on the edge… Lucas..

Re: Richard

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crazy Luke
..... Get deep , not say a whole lot, get by themselves, get treed quick with the coon more then without, with above average to loud mouth.....

---

Brent, I never did have Tex collected.

Like Ramon suggested, his direct offspring didn't really compare to his capable level, at least not those that I kept or got to see go. Regardless, he's still my measuring stick and I'd sure be happy with another one just like it. Many good memories of some very competitive cast wins and losses.

If I could have changed anything about Tex it would have been the months of July and August be more like the other nine or ten months. He just never quite performed at his highest level consistently in the summer heat.

In the Spring of 2014 I got to see Jim go several times. He reminded me a whole lot of what I always liked about Tex and old Banjo. Well balanced from start to finish. The kind that makes you want to see them stacked up against the best of any breed. Win some. Lose some. Good times.

Reading this thread brought back a lot of memories of hunting with Herb.
I first met him sometime in the 70s and hunted with him once or twice a year until his passing. Herb Always found something good to say about my dog no matter how pitiful it looked. I never heard him utter a swear word nor an ill word about anyone.
He absolutely loved his dogs and I don't think he ever got the recognition he deserved for his contribution to the breed, but that was ok with Herb.
The last couple times we hunted together he was hunting a female I believe he called Cali and I was huntin Get Ahead Lil Red and that tickled him to no end to see me leading a red dog lol. We treed a lot of coon with those 2 bitches.

Rest In Peace Ol Pal, you left your stamp on this breed that will be remembered for a long time as evident by this thread.

marv

MR VAUGHN

How many of those dogs on that list came from Herb directly or indirectly

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

@Larry & Elvis

Larry, Most all buddy. 3 quarters of that list are sons & grachildren of the old Banjo dog. Others are cousins, aunts and uncles, and I'm sure I missed a few. Mr. Vaughn had the vision and stuck with it.

Elvis, you called it. Mr. Vaughn was the type man of God that preach to you about the way a man should live, without saying a word. He just lived his faith. I loved the man dearly and always took time to tell him so.

Herb

I haven't yet heard anyone ever say a unkind word about him. I went up and stayed with him a couple of times and hunted. Always a good time. Allen Didn't see the Grand Pup part. My Bad.

__________________
Honest competion hunters make the hunts fun! Cheaters never win!!!!!

HERB

He left his mark on me.. I looked up to him. I sure do miss him. Some of my favorite memories were right there with him.

As for if the dogs are true to form, I have to say yes, I had ukc compile offspring reports on the banjo, banjo 3, and a couple other dogs direct out of banjo. It plainly shows that he consistently reproduced and as some measure he consistently reproduced on repeat crosses. What stood out to me was that if you knew one banjo dog you knew almost immediately it was out of him when you hunted with one, I hunted with a bunch of them, owned several, I have had the chance to look at them with a wide view, banjo x meg, banjo x littlegirl, banjo x trixie, I reached out to folks all over this nation who bred to banjo, owned a banjo sired hound. They described the same as I saw. Meltons red banjo was overlooked, I saw banjo the first time I saw Jim turned loose, I called Herb and told him and I'm so glad he got to see Jim go. As mentioned earlier they aren't perfect, but if folks breed for what they are (line breeding) they will always have one.

Here's a tip.. Tex and Jack were bred different than Banjo and meg... Banjo stamped Banjo on his pups and Big John stamped himself on jack and from what I hear Tex.

__________________
~I use my real name so im not confused with others~

Ok now I am confused

It doesnt take much to confuse me, could someone give a little history lesson on the Vaughn dogs.

Where it starts with what blood and what makes the dogs on the list as far as ped ancestry beginning !!!!

To where we are now with B-3 and Jim, where does fireball fit in

How was the breeding different from Tex and Jack compared to Banjo

I think I understand what the line brings as far as ability and what it might be lacking but the ancestry/ped is a little unclear

Who can shed some lite !!!!

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Call Preston...

@Larry, Me and the old Fella spent a lotta night talking about this, and his philosophies... Call me after you get the history lesson from Preston, and I'll help fill in the gaps.

Re: Ok now I am confused

quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry D Walker
It doesnt take much to confuse me, could someone give a little history lesson on the Vaughn dogs.

Where it starts with what blood and what makes the dogs on the list as far as ped ancestry beginning !!!!

To where we are now with B-3 and Jim, where does fireball fit in

How was the breeding different from Tex and Jack compared to Banjo

I think I understand what the line brings as far as ability and what it might be lacking but the ancestry/ped is a little unclear

Who can shed some lite !!!!

---

__________________
~I use my real name so im not confused with others~

Well

I had no idea that the truth would kill this thread...

__________________
~I use my real name so im not confused with others~

Preston, I can stir it back up if you want me to.

Come on!!!

Come on Richard, stir it up… It's has been a boring summer
with these coon hounds...

Comin south

Got some of that B3 blood headed to South Tx.!

__________________
CHKC CH GRNT CH BEARD BUSTIN RAZOR

PKC GCH CHKC CH GRNT CH BURGER'S RED COCK UR PISTOL HTX

NTCH GREATLAKES RED BREEZE (RIP)

NTCH BURGER'S CHEAP RED HOOKER (1 to GRNT)

NTCH PIGEON RIVER PENNY(1 to GRNT)


BURGER & SON SUPPLY CO.
Boss Light Dealer
Boss Coon Squaller

B-3 x freak

Freak comes in heat once a year or atleast she has so far,

and that usually is around mid october

When she comes in this fall she will be bred to B-3 semen.

There are several shown interest if you would like to be put on that list contact me.

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224