UKC Forums - Breeding question?

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Posted by coonbone on 04-02-2015 06:41 PM:

Breeding question?

I have a female that is short on hunt.She has everything else.
My question is,do i breed her to a male that throws big time hunt in his pups,even though they have no common ancestors? Or,is it better to breed to a male that puts less hunt in his pups,but is bred some what like the female?
My goal is to add hunt to a litter of pups,but hope not at the expense of none of the pups being able to reproduce the same.

Posted by Jeff Prince on 04-02-2015 06:54 PM:

Breed her to the unrelated male that's throwing the hunt in them . Anytime you start doubling up on blood you double the faults ( they all have them ) as well as the desired traits. Breeding her to a male that's from the same blood with the same faults is the best way to concentrate the undesirable

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Posted by on 04-02-2015 08:41 PM:

Second rule is if you ever breed a dog with a trait you don't like. You will find those traits in the pups.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-03-2015 03:25 AM:

I wouldn't breed her at all

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Posted by Sauk Talking on 04-03-2015 04:59 AM:

I wouldn't breed her at all

X2, don't take offence, I understand most hunters want a pup out of their own dogs, just maybe this is not the right dog. if you buy another pup bred with quality traits and a larger motor, in a few years, if all is well, you can breed this one and start your own thing, food for thought,

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-03-2015 05:02 AM:

To me lack of hunt or mouth is the only intolerable traits a dog can have

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Posted by coonbone on 04-05-2015 10:26 PM:

Thank you all for the good replies.I'm going to look for a female like her,only with more hunt,instead of breeding her,and more than likely getting more of the same.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-06-2015 12:25 AM:

One of the smartest things I've seen posted on here

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 04-06-2015 02:10 AM:

Well maybe and then again maybe not. If I read correctly this gentleman said his dog had everything he wanted but lacked in the hunting department. Some gave advice to look for a different female to start his breeding program with.

It has been my experience over the years that the more hunt & drive you put into your dogs, the more trash issues you will have to deal with down the road. Maybe this guy is like me and cannot stand a trashy dog. If a dog wants to loose its happy home with me, just let it switch a few times from a coon track to a fox or deer. There are worse things (in my opinion) that can be an unwanted trait, than hunting power.

If hunting power is an absolute bust for you then take these others advice and start looking for that other female that will probably have a bigger hole in a different area than the one you are currently hunting. GOOD LUCK!!

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-06-2015 03:01 AM:

You can take some hunt out of them, you can't put it in em. Lazy is a hole that can't be cured

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Posted by Jackson87 on 04-06-2015 03:12 AM:

Dave,you have a point.I like this poster wanted more hustle.I also wanted to keep the big bawl mouth on track and coon treeing talent.I got exactly that.These pups have huge mouths,can sure tree them coons and hunt there guts out but have some other faults that I never even thought of.One fault is they whine and bark at the house to a point that I can't stand them.They also love to run anything that lays a track.Those are two problems I've never had before and didn't even consider it coming.So I guess my point is Theres some cons or unwanted behaviors that come with hard hunting genes.Trust me there not easy to fix either.

Posted by coonbone on 04-06-2015 03:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
Dave,you have a point.I like this poster wanted more hustle.I also wanted to keep the big bawl mouth on track and coon treeing talent.I got exactly that.These pups have huge mouths,can sure tree them coons and hunt there guts out but have some other faults that I never even thought of.One fault is they whine and bark at the house to a point that I can't stand them.They also love to run anything that lays a track.Those are two problems I've never had before and didn't even consider it coming.So I guess my point is Theres some cons or unwanted behaviors that come with hard hunting genes.Trust me there not easy to fix either.

Very good point! But,are all dogs with hustle,hyper in the pen?I do know of a dog that has tons of hustle,but is a pacing,barking mess in the pen.I'm going to ask around.I know of a couple others that have the hustle i like,but don't know how they are in the pen.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-06-2015 03:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Very good point! But,are all dogs with hustle,hyper in the pen?I do know of a dog that has tons of hustle,but is a pacing,barking mess in the pen.I'm going to ask around.I know of a couple others that have the hustle i like,but don't know how they are in the pen.

All of mine are kennel quiet, clean in the pen, and mellow in the dog box. Otherwise I won't own them. Hyper does not equal hussle.

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Posted by RLenhart on 04-06-2015 03:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Very good point! But,are all dogs with hustle,hyper in the pen?I do know of a dog that has tons of hustle,but is a pacing,barking mess in the pen.I'm going to ask around.I know of a couple others that have the hustle i like,but don't know how they are in the pen.

I have one that's about 2 1/2 yrs old with all the drive and hustle anybody could want. At around 1yr old he pranced around at the pen all day like a high strung bird dog but he grew out of it eventually. right now he lays around all day like a 10yr until he sees me coming with a light on my head then he flips his switch.

Posted by John D on 04-06-2015 03:51 PM:

coonbone, what do you mean by "short on hunt"?

Does she hang too close to you when hunted with other dogs, or by herself?

Does she want to stand in your light and/or walk with you?

How does she react when you "correct" her "shortness"?

Does she refuse to go with dogs running a deer or partcipate in babbling cross country races?

Does she only go 3 miles when another dog went 3.5 miles?

Did someone win your cast and tell you she was short on hunt?

I guess I'd have to know a little more about her to say whether she should be bred or what kind of dog she should be bred to.

The truth is ALL dogs have some kind of shortcoming(s). You just got to figure out if hers is bad enough that changing the dog is the easiest path to something better.

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Posted by coonbone on 04-06-2015 05:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by John D
coonbone, what do you mean by "short on hunt"?

Does she hang too close to you when hunted with other dogs, or by herself?

Does she want to stand in your light and/or walk with you?

How does she react when you "correct" her "shortness"?

Does she refuse to go with dogs running a deer or partcipate in babbling cross country races?

Does she only go 3 miles when another dog went 3.5 miles?

Did someone win your cast and tell you she was short on hunt?

I guess I'd have to know a little more about her to say whether she should be bred or what kind of dog she should be bred to.

The truth is ALL dogs have some kind of shortcoming(s). You just got to figure out if hers is bad enough that changing the dog is the easiest path to something better.

By herself,she ranges between one hundred,and two hundred yards,in a big circle around me.With other dogs,she does the same except will make a mad dash to a dog that is treed several hundred yards away.She will tree coons behind dogs,but never ahead of them,unless they both strike close by.Then she'll be the first to the tree.She's a loud,stay put tree dog,that is very fast on track,but won't go looking for a track very deep.Embarrassing to hunt with someone else,because she looks like a me too dog most of the night.I want that dog that is four hundred yards away treed before the other dogs know what happened.Don't want the dog that gets second tree most of the time.

Posted by Travis Brown on 04-06-2015 05:40 PM:

I would not breed her. Hunt is closely related to desire and 100-200 yard hunting is not nearly enough.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-06-2015 05:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
All of mine are kennel quiet, clean in the pen, and mellow in the dog box. Otherwise I won't own them. Hyper does not equal hussle.

x2 ... I check on the old man everyday to make sure he isn't dead lol and the young one has enough hunt for several dogs neither make a peep all day till they hear the buddies truck pulling down the drive . Shack will bark if he isn't fed first . Some would say their fault is no reverse . They suit me fine , keep hunting till I am done and don't come back unless called in .

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-06-2015 05:59 PM:

As for breeding your female , what is the main reason you want to raise a litter of pups ? There are several studs that consistantly throw the go hunting and heart but it is not a gaurantee in all pups but you will most likely get it in some . Have you hunted a go power dog in the past . Myself I want them to tree em' close or tree em' far what ever it takes and not take all night to do it . But there are many out there that would say deep and alone is not their style . Many of my older buddies are like this now they prefer the in a few hundred yards and back type . If you are not prepared to wear out boots and long walks alone think hard what you truely want in a dog .

Posted by amazingcursouth on 04-06-2015 06:09 PM:

Don't breed her. Reason? Well over time this trait will come back and may pass onto her pups no matter who the sire is. Only breed dogs that have the traits you like and desire. There is no perfect hound, but you should not breed knowing a major flaw. I have seen to many breeding in hopes of building traits into litters that many times end up as a litter of culls or half hook hounds. No offense to your female, but I would spay her and hunt her, I would not use her as breeding stock.

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Posted by RatDog on 04-06-2015 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
You can take some hunt out of them, you can't put it in em. Lazy is a hole that can't be cured

Why's that?

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Posted by coonbone on 04-06-2015 11:47 PM:

I've read through this thread a couple times,and now realize it wouldn't be right to breed my female,in hopes of getting a dog with more hunt.I'm going to look for a couple pups out of crosses that throw plenty of hunt,loud mouths,and stay put tree dogs.There's bound to be some out there,some where.

Posted by HOBO on 04-06-2015 11:52 PM:

Without knowing how her litter mates hunt its hard to say if this is a man made issue or a lack of hunt. Whoever trained her may have trained her to just hunt out 100-200 yards. As far as covering dog goes IF mine aren't working a track I want them to cover the other dog. I'm not talking about meeeeeee tooing I want my dogs to work together with the other dogs if they don't have anything going on their own.

How is your dog bred?

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Posted by Jammer2122 on 04-12-2015 05:26 PM:

How old is your female. Might be wrong on this but she sounds like she is young and needs a lot of time alone in the woods. Would you consider selling her?

Posted by coonbone on 04-13-2015 02:34 AM:

Hobo,and Jammer
She is almost two years old,and has been hunted a lot by herself.I sit on the tailgate,and hope each evening that she'll go deeper.She's treed a lot of coons,but always struck them fairly close by.She gets hunted three nights a week.She's not for sale.If i get a hound that goes harder,i'll give her to my nephew,that wants a dog pretty bad.

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