UKC Forums - Head down or Up?

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-- Head down or Up? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928412994)

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-21-2015 01:21 PM:

Head down or Up?

What type of track style do you prefer and why?

I am fairly new to this, but have hunted with a fair share of dogs. Obviously every dog is different, but in a general sense it seems that there are pros and cons to both. Just wondering what observations you guys have made.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-21-2015 02:11 PM:

head up, most dogs will run a hotter track with there head up. if there going to run a colder track they will put there nose down closer to the ground.

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-21-2015 02:20 PM:

The good ones need to do both, put that nose down and work hard through the thick stuff and pick it up and drift on out and run to catch when they can.

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Posted by robert whitten on 03-21-2015 02:31 PM:

exactly what john said . they better be willing to start that cold track with their head down and the warmer the track the higher the head till they are smoking it . unless you are a comp hunter lol

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Posted by chip johnson on 03-21-2015 04:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by robert whitten
exactly what john said . they better be willing to start that cold track with their head down and the warmer the track the higher the head till they are smoking it . unless you are a comp hunter lol

x2

I will also add i'm not sure if i like a track drifter or a track straddler better because i have both and can see advantages in both at differant times.
For some reason most of what you will see out there is a track straddler.

Posted by walkerman75 on 03-21-2015 04:45 PM:

x3 on what john said

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-21-2015 05:06 PM:

So a balance of the 2 is ideal.

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Posted by nodak on 03-21-2015 06:20 PM:

Ya i want a dog that runs with its head up, but if it hits a colder track it has enough brains to put it's nose down till it gets it up and running! Gene Parrow

Posted by dchartt on 03-21-2015 08:08 PM:

if my dog dont know what to do with his head i sure as heck know what to do with it

Posted by DFred on 03-22-2015 12:36 AM:

X4 on john's post

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 03-22-2015 12:48 AM:

How a dogs olfactory system works in certain head positions is about as far from any of us understanding as how to get to space.

Just get a dog that can drive a track, and as long as their head isn't up their #ף.....It probably don't matter

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Posted by AndyMiller on 03-22-2015 02:13 AM:

I LOVE TO SEE A DOG COME OF THE BOX AND YOU GOT HIM ON THE LEASH AN HE,S GOT HIS NOSE UP AN TRYING TO WIND BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO RUN AN FINISH A TRACK

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-22-2015 02:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
How a dogs olfactory system works in certain head positions is about as far from any of us understanding as how to get to space.

Just get a dog that can drive a track, and as long as their head isn't up their #ף.....It probably don't matter

Yeah that makes sense haha

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Posted by buck brush on 03-22-2015 02:42 PM:

I have a ??? its dark out how do you all know if your dog is running with its head up or down??? or is it guess work??

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Posted by dchartt on 03-22-2015 02:48 PM:

Get off the tailgate haha

Posted by robert whitten on 03-22-2015 02:56 PM:

lol yeah . if you don't know it can't be taught . it has to do with voice , speed and knowing your hounds inside out and upside down as well as sideways . basically head down is an old feeder track that ALOT of hounds these days will pass on by like a cur dog and a jumped coon track racing the hounds to a den tree .

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Posted by buck brush on 03-22-2015 02:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dchartt
Get off the tailgate haha

well congratulation you won the Sunday morning smart ass award, I have been off the tail gate longer then you have been alive probably you can guess all you want.

Posted by shadinc on 03-22-2015 04:49 PM:

I think the "haha" meant it was a joke. Lighten up.

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-22-2015 05:04 PM:

My personal hound that sets the bar for everything I train. Runs with her head down near the ground, wether hunting, or tracking. I know a lot of guys like a dog to run heads up, but most of the dogs I have had that run with there heads up were not as accurate, and would switch tracks regularly and blow by coon. I however realize to make an assumption that all heads up dogs are this way, on the small sample of dogs I have trained would be foolish. SoI thought I would see if anyone one else has noticed these same things.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 03-22-2015 05:33 PM:

If you can follow your dog close enough to see whether its head is up or down.....where its head is is the least of your worries

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-22-2015 05:36 PM:

Josh its different up here, you can take five steps into the woods and be on a coon track. So its not uncommon to see a dog start or finish a track in sight.

Not to mention I don't expect a pup to run and track like a broke dog.
IMO you can usually get a pretty good idea of what track style for a lack of better terms that a pup will have once its matures just by laying a few short drags for the pup.

I have seen different styles in different lines and breeds. Why are you killing me on this.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 03-22-2015 05:52 PM:

Not killing you at all.

Coonhunters have strange theory's about how and what a dog is doing, and one of them is that how a dog holds its head, has some bearing on how a dog moves a track, but in reality, there are just dogs that are fast, and dogs that are slow. Track talent is simply not predicated on head position.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-22-2015 06:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Not killing you at all.

Coonhunters have strange theory's about how and what a dog is doing, and one of them is that how a dog holds its head, has some bearing on how a dog moves a track, but in reality, there are just dogs that are fast, and dogs that are slow. Track talent is simply not predicated on head position.

True but just because a dog sounds fast doesn't mean he is as efficient as well. To much speed not enough sense and accuracy, you have a dog that is blowing by coon and tracks and coming up short.
I pattern my coon, this makes it pretty apparent when a dog will switch tracks. By far the heads up track driving dog that most claim to have the most speed, IMO is extremely inefficient. For example...

Say dog A gets cut get struck quick drives it 650yards and gets first tree. Dog B gets second strike and straddles a track at an average pace but only runs it 50 yards and trees. Now which tree will we check first probably the closest one.
So we have now walked a total of 50 yards dog b has a coon. Cut dog b loose and head out to dog A. But before we can take a couple steps dog b strikes again this time a 100 yards from us, runs the track 150 yards and splits again. We now have 550 yards to A and 250 to dog B.

I realize these scenarios would only happen in the north probably, but a dog that can tree all types of coon, and has that extra knack for treeing coon, will beat a fast track dog more often then not because they tree more coon per yards travelled. Even though there not travelling as fast. Now at some point if the dog is so slow the fast dog would win more often or vice versa if the dog is so fast it could balance out. But my point is this if a dog can tree a coon in 50 yards why should it travel 600 to me that is extremely inefficient. Not to mention you would also want to calculate the time traveled to the tree. Idk about you but it takes me awhile to travel 650 yards in big country.

So hence my post, from what I have seen nose down straddle type dogs are more efficient and more accurate generally then a heads up type dog. They will tree more coon in less distance traveled. Yes there are con's like beating an old track or having more noise then brains. However as far as I can see speed isn't everything. Just was wondering if anyone else has made these observations. Like I said earlier I have only trained a hand full of dogs, so I don't want to jump to conclusions.
I do like John's answer though. A dog that can do it all, makes a lot of sense. I also realize I'm splitting hairs, and at the end of the day its the brains that matter, but part of me thinks one track style could be superior over another.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-22-2015 06:57 PM:

is it brains or desire that matters more? im thinking desire

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 03-22-2015 09:28 PM:

I have never been able to keep up with mind threw the woods to see.what is the avg track speed on your dog on the garmin?

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