UKC Forums - Dogs hopping tracks?

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Posted by Fisher13 on 12-01-2014 06:45 PM:

Dogs hopping tracks?

Not sure what you call this, but it seems to me that some of these harder going fast track dogs may switch tracks? In another words they may smell coon, shortly after being unleashed... first strike, but are unable to work it out, so due to the drive and excitement bred into them they take off running till they smell a hotter track that they can tree, and end up 800 yards deep and treed. Some would say that coon traveled 800 yards up the creek the hound just straight lined on, and the hound drove the track like a hound like he was tied to it but I would question was that the same track the hound originally struck on?

In my experience tracks that are longer then 400 yards give or take, usually start cold and take a little time to heat up, then the dog will start to smoke it. They also generally don't follow the stream the entire way, generally straying off to some source off food where they typically end up being treed. Coon also generally don't travel in a straight line. I realize there exceptions to these rules.

Just curious to hear others thoughts on this?

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Posted by on 12-01-2014 07:28 PM:

Your correct and it will drive a man crazy trying to figure it out. Throw in a deer track of two switched over to a coon and you have a real bonanza of things going on.

What a real live coondog should do and what someone will settle for are sometimes are worlds apart. Matter of fact I am getting confused on what a real live coondog is anymore.

Last night our last track was so confusing to me I can't figure it out but I liked the results. Maybe thats all that matters anymore but it bothers me.

We were in a bedded/chopped area where they grow pines. The new planted pines are maybe a foot tall. There are about a half dozen cypress ponds scattered across about 300 acres of planted area. We saw two deer standing on the edge of a pond and we drive the side by side to about 75 yards of them. We sent our dog straight to them wanting to do some training I feel she needs. Well she went just about 20 yards right of them as we watched one just step out in the chop and walk off while the other one stood on the edge. My dog got in behind them and opened. She did not run in their direction and I knew there could be another deer. Anyway I held off shocking and she took the track on our of there and got to running it pretty good. Just about the time I had convinced myself I should shock here, she fell treed. Did she leave there on a coon and tree it? Did she leave there on a deer and switch to a coon? I don't know and never will, I know it is just frustrating at times, unless you only look at the end results, a coon in the tree. Guess, I should but I want to evaluate them every step of the way. Anyway when it gets dark tonight both me and the dog will get another chance to get it right.

Posted by Dwils on 12-01-2014 09:41 PM:

The so called "track drifter" often times hops tracks 2-3 times before landing on the coon in the back of the section. Give me a dog that puts that track between it's legs and you will mow the track drifter over .

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Posted by POTOMAC on 12-01-2014 09:47 PM:

I am the same way trying to dissect evry track and tree as to what happened !!! Every time a dog barks !!! Bruce I would say she left on the coin she treed !! Unless the deer there are different than here cause if she would have been running one the other two with it sure wouldn't have stood there !!now unless they were breeder does and your female ran into a buck that was trailing the does and stinking in rut !! But in my experience most dogs will tongue different on trash versus a coon !!! Anyway that's my two sense Andy theory if nothing elsewillease yourmind !!!!lol maybe not tonight but maybe for last nights track !! And I know one thing for sure Bruce you are def putting in the work and I for one hope it pays off for you !!!!!!!

Posted by on 12-01-2014 09:58 PM:

Thanks Joe. I also hope one turns out, but the good thing about this sport is "It's all fun"!!
Rather be riding around the woods tonight in my ranger that watching TV. Never know what I might see!!

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-01-2014 10:01 PM:

I think alot more track switchin goes on than people would like to admit, how aften have you heard "hes gettin that track warmed up now".
I live in pretty thick coon and when they are in the corn i would almost bet that half the time the coon they strike isnt the coon they end up under. Heck i have turned loose caged coon for a pup and thought that dog did a nice job until you knock the coon out and discover its not the one you turned loose.

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Posted by msinc on 12-01-2014 11:46 PM:

Back in the late 80's we all started hearing about dogs "switching" tracks. It started out as an excuse for getting your tail tore up in a night hunt by a better dog. Rather than admit someone else had a dog that was faster and better you could just say "cant beat that dog, he started a deer and switched over!!!" many a competition hunter has saved face that way...I never really believed all the hype about it. Can a dog switch tracks??? Certainly, but every time he trees a coon??? Nahhhhh.....
I think that under the right conditions a dog can sound different on a track and also be able to run a track differently.
The way to be sure of what's going on, and the only way I know of is to hunt the dog in a fresh snow. Dogs we thought were switching tracks always proved to not be in the snow.
Mr. Conkey, I realize this might be a little hard for you down there in the sunshine state...

Posted by pamjohnson on 12-02-2014 12:17 AM:

i feel track switching happens plenty some switch coon tracks some do trash some do both. it also depends on the dog. some dogs don't mind running there mouth more than others. other times its because a dog likes to track more than tree. im sure there are more reasons also.

Posted by Larry Atherton on 12-02-2014 01:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
The way to be sure of what's going on, and the only way I know of is to hunt the dog in a fresh snow. Dogs we thought were switching tracks always proved to not be in the snow.

I have always said snow does not lie.

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Posted by buck brush on 12-02-2014 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dwils
The so called "track drifter" often times hops tracks 2-3 times before landing on the coon in the back of the section. Give me a dog that puts that track between it's legs and you will mow the track drifter over .

A you guys talking about a dog that starts out on a deer or something else and switches over to a coon or are you saying a dog will start out on one coon track and keeps switching over until he finds a track he can tree?

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-02-2014 06:45 PM:

I've got two dogs... one that drifts a track and one, as Daniel says, keeps it between her legs. You can watch them, on the Garmin, working the same track with the male just a bit left or right handed.

If they are cutting across a frozen tamarack swamp, the drifting male will smoke my female every time. But, if they're in the woods with a heavy coon population, there's no way for the track drifter to know if he's "drifting" the same track, when coon's paths cross. So what I've witnessed is him beating her to a tree (they're almost always split) sometimes and getting beat to a tree depending on whether he switched from a hot track to a colder track or vice versa. She ran the same coon the whole way, but his drifting criss-crossed multiple tracks, without him knowing it.

In his case, it's not a matter of switching to something he can move, as he's pretty capable in that arena, it's simply a matter of him switching a track, because it wasn't "between his legs". And I think this get's worst as the track heats up, because he's moving a lot faster and more prone to "jumping" tracks. But this is because I was hunting in a heavy coon population! Now in North Carolina, my problem is him beating and banging away at that older feeder track, and not moving on to something hotter!

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 12-02-2014 07:01 PM:

Switchin tracks

I had a female out of High style that would do that ! but I could always tell when she wasn't on a coon

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Posted by buck brush on 12-02-2014 07:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
I've got two dogs... one that drifts a track and one, as Daniel says, keeps it between her legs. You can watch them, on the Garmin, working the same track with the male just a bit left or right handed.

If they are cutting across a frozen tamarack swamp, the drifting male will smoke my female every time. But, if they're in the woods with a heavy coon population, there's no way for the track drifter to know if he's "drifting" the same track, when coon's paths cross. So what I've witnessed is him beating her to a tree (they're almost always split) sometimes and getting beat to a tree depending on whether he switched from a hot track to a colder track or vice versa. She ran the same coon the whole way, but his drifting criss-crossed multiple tracks, without him knowing it.

In his case, it's not a matter of switching to something he can move, as he's pretty capable in that arena, it's simply a matter of him switching a track, because it wasn't "between his legs". And I think this get's worst as the track heats up, because he's moving a lot faster and more prone to "jumping" tracks. But this is because I was hunting in a heavy coon population! Now in North Carolina, my problem is him beating and banging away at that older feeder track, and not moving on to something hotter!

where did you get your Garmin? I would buy one that shows tracks on it. I know dogs will switch off trash onto a coon but I have never seen a dog switch coon tracks, but I have seen hot nose dogs run along side dogs that are running a track that they can not smell until they come onto a hot track.

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-02-2014 08:03 PM:

Skip - I know my male drifts tracks, because as Larry points out, snow doesn't lie. I have also hunted with my male, alongside many dogs that have no clue what he's up to, until he's just about treed. So I know he's got a pretty cold nose, and is not a "hot nose" running alongside. I also know, that when he strikes first, he's obviously not tagging along.

SO... when I see HIS track on the Garmin to the left or right of my female, and he's down wind. And they seem to track closely, AND I have good working knowledge of my dogs, I can tell you when they're working the same track, where he's winding it and she's on top of it.

And how could you possibly know whether your dogs switched coon tracks, since as you say, the Garmin doesn't show those??? Your woods over by LaPorte are packed full of coon, and I'm sure they're tracks criss-cross one another, so how would you or your dog know that they finished the exact same coon track they started???

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-02-2014 08:07 PM:

I'm not sure if anyone else has watched a coon, when they're not being chased, but those suckers wander all over a woods, like drunken sailors! They go this way and that, and then back again. I watched two from my tree stand one day, where they both covered the same ground, back and forth, repeatedly.

So if you have more than one coon in a woods, and even if your dog is on top of the track, I would venture a bet that they switch back and forth between coon tracks. Assuming all coon smell roughly the same, and your dog is pursuing them by scent, I don't know how they would help but switch back and forth, where multiple coon occupy the same area!

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Posted by buck brush on 12-02-2014 10:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Skip -

And how could you possibly know whether your dogs switched coon tracks, since as you say, the Garmin doesn't show those??? Your woods over by LaPorte are packed full of coon, and I'm sure they're tracks criss-cross one another, so how would you or your dog know that they finished the exact same coon track they started???

Dave first I do not hunt Ind. I do all my hunting in Michigan, from the IND. line to the UP trust me the coon are not running over each other.
from what you are saying about your male dog he hunts the wind ( he must have a very good nose) my self I would rather have a dog that does that then one that PUTS THE TRACK between its leg because they never raise there head up, yes I have seen dogs run a track I use to do a lot of morning hunting and you can see a lot you see the coon and the dogs, I have rabbit hunted I had a male dog that would run 10 to 15 feet off the side of the track on a jumped rabbit trust me I have seen it all I have hunted for 60 some years, so do dogs switch track I do not know just like others do not know if they do or not. but IMOP I do not think they do. I will say this I have stood by a corn field and saw coon come out the dogs was running a track and they crossed the track where the coon came out and they did not switch they treed the coon they was running .JMO all coon do not smell a like just like all humans do not smell a like each living thing has its own smell.

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-02-2014 10:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
Dave first I do not hunt Ind. I do all my hunting in Michigan, from the IND. line to the UP trust me the coon are not running over each other.
from what you are saying about your male dog he hunts the wind ( he must have a very good nose) my self I would rather have a dog that does that then one that PUTS THE TRACK between its leg because they never raise there head up, yes I have seen dogs run a track I use to do a lot of morning hunting and you can see a lot you see the coon and the dogs, I have rabbit hunted I had a male dog that would run 10 to 15 feet off the side of the track on a jumped rabbit trust me I have seen it all I have hunted for 60 some years, so do dogs switch track I do not know just like others do not know if they do or not. but IMOP I do not think they do. I will say this I have stood by a corn field and saw coon come out the dogs was running a track and they crossed the track where the coon came out and they did not switch they treed the coon they was running .JMO all coon do not smell a like just like all humans do not smell a like each living thing has its own smell.

If you dont believe dogs switch coon tracks how do you explain a cast of dogs strikeing and running together for several hundred yards and ending up split treed with different coons?

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Posted by msinc on 12-02-2014 10:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
If you dont believe dogs switch coon tracks how do you explain a cast of dogs strikeing and running together for several hundred yards and ending up split treed with different coons?

That one is pretty easy to me...several coons traveling/feeding together suddenly get chased by a bunch of barking dogs. They stay together for a while then when they have to climb they do, up different trees. Sometimes up the same tree. Which could also explain the same scenario but having one tree with four coons in it. Usually a mother with almost grown kittens that still travel together.

I am not saying dogs cannot switch tracks. They certainly can and dogs being dogs are subject to do anything at any time. But I have to say in regards to the OP's first post: if a dog constantly gets 800-900 yards deep on a track and has a coon every time I am not sure he ran that coon that entire distance without something a little hokey going on there. Maybe he's ghost trailing to get away from other dogs, maybe he's running junk and switching, who can really say. I have certainly seen coons run that far, but not very often. Most coons cannot take the kind of pressure a well bred hound can drive on them and they climb out of necessity much sooner. Most of them that I have treed don't run 100 yards before they have to go up and a 200 yard run is rare. Now a cold nosed dog can work up a bad track and go a ways to the tree but you can usually tell when this is happening by the dog. I would find it hard to believe that the same dog is constantly hitting very cold tracks every time he finds a coon. I just don't believe dogs do all this switching of tracks that everyone accuses them of.
You hear or read things like I feel, I think, I believe they switch but you don't hear or read "I know for certain" or "I can prove" and then hear or see it substantiated. Check 'em in the snow..."snow don't lie" as the man said above.

Posted by Stan Ferrell on 12-02-2014 10:42 PM:

I've been waitin for the guys that run the swamp coons for two hours before they tree to add alittle insight to this thread.

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-02-2014 10:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
That one is pretty easy to me...several coons traveling/feeding together suddenly get chased by a bunch of barking dogs. They stay together for a while then when they have to climb they do, up different trees. Sometimes up the same tree. Which could also explain the same scenario but having one tree with four coons in it. Usually a mother with almost grown kittens that still travel together.

Im not sayin your wrong, i have heard other experienced hunters say they believe that a dog can tell one coon from another, but i believe if a dog is cold trailing a coon and crosses a hotter track that most dogs are going to switch to the hotter coon, atleast i hope mine would.

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-02-2014 10:57 PM:

Guys I too am not saying that dogs are swapping tracks all the time. I'm just saying IF you are in thick coon, and a woods has multiple coon tracks going every which way, then I'm not sure how or why they wouldn't go back and forth until one leads to a tree.

I'll bet coon do have a slightly different odor, as I'm sure one that lives in a tree smells different than one that lives in a hole or a barn. BUT, dogs aren't rational, thinking beings, so they're not going to think, "well, I'm on George's track so I better finish it and not go run Larry's!"

They're trained and have learned to trail coon scent, and I just don't think they're going to differentiate between coon, other than this one seems easier to smell than that one.

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Posted by msinc on 12-02-2014 11:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Im not sayin your wrong, i have heard other experienced hunters say they believe that a dog can tell one coon from another, but i believe if a dog is cold trailing a coon and crosses a hotter track that most dogs are going to switch to the hotter coon, atleast i hope mine would.

I agree, either situation could happen either way. I would like to think my dogs would have enough sense to grab onto the better, easier or hotter track but I don't know that either...we used to have an old saying when our dogs got into a mess of multiple coons in a small area. They would run around barking and banging on different tracks but not able to straighten any one of them out enough to tree it..."Can't take prosperity" was the words we used. That would be one of those nights when we would tell each other, "they are just dogs."

Posted by Fisher13 on 12-03-2014 12:17 AM:

Good discussion guys, given that my dog is related to daves male dog. That pretty much confirms my hunch.

I also can confirm that if you hunt your woods enough and pattern your coon, you can learn a lot about a dog, including when there switching tracks. I could take a walk out there tomorrow and tell you right where she left one track and went to the next.

What I THINK she is doing is losing her mind, she was laid up for a week or so, and because of the pent up energy she is getting struck, getting excited and then running like a bat out of Hell.

It amazes me why so many advocate knocking out coon, I would never have been able to know what she is up to, if I hadn't ran all of these coon several times and had them patterned. Now I know I clealry need to hunt her down more, and that she is still struggling to put it all together, from track to tree, and more then likely she isnt running deer.

The information gathered through these observations and having my coon patterned have just played a vital role in me avoiding any unwarranted shocking or corrections.

Thanks for all your replies guys, and thanks Dave you confirmed my suspicions, does it bother you that he switches coon? Do you feel he sometimes gets deeper then needed because of it? Does this help you win at all, by getting split more?

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Posted by buck brush on 12-03-2014 01:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ed zachary
I've been waitin for the guys that run the swamp coons for two hours before they tree to add alittle insight to this thread.

been there and done that many times, you would think they could find a better track when the coon come up out of the swamp or lake and then goes back just to run the heck out of them more. there is nothing better then setting on a hill in the summer with 4 or 5 dogs in a swamp or lake bottom and having them run hot for 1 to 3 hours, I have a place that has a 40 acre lake in it and one night my buddies dog lapped it 2 times running wide open and the coon went in a rat house to end the track.

Posted by buck brush on 12-03-2014 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc

You hear or read things like I feel, I think, I believe they switch but you don't hear or read "I know for certain" or "I can prove" and then hear or see it substantiated. Check 'em in the snow..."snow don't lie" as the man said above.

very well said , but checking in the snow, witch track is the hottest ???

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