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frozen seamen winners??

Im not pretending to know anything about pups off frozen seamen and want answers based on experience. Ive had several conversations with fellow hunters about the ability of frozen seamen to throw the same quality of pups that was being produced when the sire was alive? There seems to be a certain level of doubt that frozen is effective. Can anyone comment on your experience and back that up with facts about winners or titled dogs off seamen?

Well frozen semen is a tough thing. Very very few pup statistically turn into big time stud dogs and there are relatively few pups out of frozen semen today, which drastically reduces their numbers. As far as the genetic makeup, it should remain unchanged and as a result they should be able to produce the same quality dog with frozen as is produced with normal. As far as hard proof, I can't say I have any that have won big time hunts but I also can't say I follow it. Hoping to push the young dog in my signature in some hunts soon, but for the most part he will just be a pleasure dog. I don't think he had any genetic fall off due to frozen semen.

__________________
Cody Johnson:


Middle Creek Kennels:

Home of:

-GRNITECH Ball's Stylish Hickory Nut Harry
GRCH GRNITECH PR' Crow and Grant's Cutter
-GRCH GRNITECH PR' Night Heat Abby

NITECH PR' Middle Creek's Stylish Kate (1st place 2011 UKC Youth National open hunt and overall high scoring treeing walker female. 1st Place Plott Sectional and overall high scoring dog. Qualified for the 2012 UKC World Championship. Qualified for the 2012 Youth Nationals.)

-NITECH PR' MC Queen & Fergys Wipeout Zack
'PR' Wipeout Pebbles
-NTECH PR' Packrat
_______________________________

-GRNITECH ‘PR’ Hard Knockin Stylish Hayes
GRNITECH ‘PR’ Ball’s Stylish Hickory Nut Harry
-GRNITECH ‘PR’ Schmersal’s Stylish Anna

NITECH ‘PR’ Middle Creek’s Stylish Banjo

-GRNITECH ‘PR’ Turpin’s Insane Cain
NITECH ‘PR’ Johnson’s Extreme Jane
-GRNITECH ‘PR’ Treesinging Rambling Roxy

It's not scientifically possible for a semen pup to be inferior or superior because it's the product of frozen semen.

I had a pup off Hardwood Patch semen recently that, to me, was nearly exceptional. Finished him to a Nt Ch without any difficulty, and should have Granded him. I have no experience with the lie breeding pups off Patch, but they couldn't have been a whole lot better. I think the post above pretty well nailed it. The odds of an exceptional pup popping up are gonna be better with ten litters a year, than they will be with one litter every ten years.

Thanks for your input guys, i am looking at making a cross next year using frozen seamen and hope this post can erase the doubt in my mind

.

I have a male out of Rat,that has some pups on the ground that are looking really good. He is dual grand and will be in the Grand and SETWD we will have to see were he finishs. But you can follow him on this stud page.His name is WARRIOR.

__________________
NO/SPLIT KENNELS
Robbie Brown 252/904/1691
Justin Strickland 910/258/4363

At Stud
☆☆GRCH GRNITECH RATS LAST WARRIOR☆☆
(GRNITECH Rat Attack (semen) x GRNITECH Trackman Hot Sauce)

Semen @ BLOCKSPORT in NC

WARRIOR Stud Page

GRNITECH Xtra Jane
(WldNtCh GrNtCh X Jr x WldNtCh GrNtCh Insane Jane)

GRNITECH Stylish Scout
(GrNtCh Balls Stylish Harry x GrNtCh Water Oak Mable)




GRCH GRNITECH CAROLINA CASH (SEMEN)
GRNITECH SCH ALL GRAND TRACK LIZARD (SEMEN)

"Where conformation is a matter of OPINION, and Performance is a matter of FACT!!"

Maybe but

I always wonder. If we are talking about genes. If the genes from frozen semen work to make toes, ears, eyes, color etc.. why would the genes not produce traits needed to tree coon? I expect
there is no difference. Time will tell.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

There's a lot of dogs winning off frozen semen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this past years UKC world champion was off frozen semen?

quote:

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Originally posted by Tyson McComber yeah that's what I was gonna say Main Street Roy semen!!
There's a lot of dogs winning off frozen semen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this past years UKC world champion was off frozen semen?

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Honey Hollow Kennels
Home of :
Ch PR Broad Creek Brash Hog ( 2 1st place wins toward nite ch) English male

GRNTCH FISHCREEKS DIRTY JOE

A redbone semen pup

Nt Ch in 3 hunts at 15 months old

Grnt at 26 months old

High scoring redbone male at 2 yrs old 2012 ukc world hunt!!!

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

95% of reproduction rating is a numbers game now a days. It's easier for a dog to have 50 grand nights on the ground when the have 1500 pups than it is to have 50 grands and 200 pups. Think of it this way. If track man had only sired 30 live breeding pups and 2500 semen pups and he could have remain advertised and popular then the reproduction rating should stay the same...... Semen remains the same weather live breeding or AI. what changes is the amount of pup produced. Think about this (statistically wrong I know) there is 1 semen litter for ever 500 live bred litter. So of coarse 1 grand semen pup out of a litter of 10 doesn't sound as good as 50 grands out of the 500 or so live bred pups. I bet that if you got hard copy's from UKC I bet statically semen reproduction ratings are close if not better than live breeding ratings.

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Do Not be afraid of frozen seamen !!! Had a litter out of Bone Collector frozen, had eight pups, one did not live. All seven are one year old today and all seven running and treeing. I have a frozen seamen pup out of Bellar's Psycho first hunt was last weekend of February and was Grand Nite Champion last weekend of May at two years old, I am not talking just back yard hunts either some of the events were major national events. Don't worry, I've done frozen seamen several times and the numbers were litters of: 9 - 8 - 11 - 9 - 8 - 8 and one did not settle and we took a chance the seamen was not to good at the time of breeding and knew this before hand just took the gamble. Best of luck to you and if you have any questions please give me a call. Alan Kalal 612-251-3184

__________________
Alan Kalal
612-251-3184 - cell
507-332-1960 - Home
alankalal1959@gmail.com

Home of:
Gr. Ch. Gr. Nite Ch. 'PR' Kalal's MN Pyched Up Miss Pac Man

R.I.P.
Dual Grand Champion Kalal's Minnesota Anne
&
Dual Grand Champion Kalal's Minnesota Destiny in the Wind

Support the Treeing Walker Breeders & Fanciers Association.
Website: www.twbfa.com

I was suspicious to. Hardly ever see any winning much less make studs. Just recently I had one off harry semen. Now to me he was a nice un. A track driver. Little slow to locate right now and again but was getting better. When he planted himself. You saw that coon. So I was getting over my suspicion. Then I come home one day. Look down and he's his same ol self raised up on pen looking at me. 2 hrs later I go to feed. He's dead. Id take another like him right now though! Had just turned 3.

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Michael Ghorley

....GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel, semen.
..Male pup, Owner James Guess
....GrNtCh Stylish Whitey





....GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel, semen
..Rebel's Hardwood Lace, Owner Homemade Kennels
....GrNtCh Stylish Whitey




....GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel, semen
..Rebel's Bawling Bonnie, Owner David Lambert.
....GrNtCh Stylish Whitey



I also owned Due Gn Tj's Stylish Lipper, out of Lipper Semen.

__________________
T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel (SEMEN)
GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Nite Life Pay Dirt (SEMEN)
GrNtCh PKC Ch Poison Smoke (SEMEN)


HomeMade Kennels
Newton N.C
2010 SETWA BREEDER OF THE YEAR!!
(828) 302-5480

95% of reproduction rating is a numbers game now a days. It's easier for a dog to have 50 grand nights on the ground when the have 1500 pups than it is to have 50 grands and 200 pups. Think of it this way. If track man had only sired 30 live breeding pups and 2500 semen pups and he could have remain advertised and popular then the reproduction rating should stay the same...... Semen remains the same weather live breeding or AI. what changes is the amount of pup produced. Think about this (statistically wrong I know) there is 1 semen litter for ever 500 live bred litter. So of coarse 1 grand semen pup out of a litter of 10 doesn't sound as good as 50 grands out of the 500 or so live bred pups. I bet that if you got hard copy's from UKC I bet statically semen reproduction ratings are close if not better than live breeding ratings.

Marshall said it all!

We have a 3 year old off lipper. Outstanding hound. 4 hunts entered ..4wins... 2013 ND state champ. High scoring dog both nights. 775 plus 525 circle 0 minus fri. Night 725 plus no minus sat. NO LEAVES...NTCH LIPLOCK LIZZY. ..the lipper semen she is off was 27 years old....

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Nick , there was walker dog out in western iowa that did a bunch of winning in pkc this year and he also won ukc walker days I believe.....I don't think it makes a diff if there from frozen or live semen but some people seem to think so but u also got to remember for every frozen semen pup there like 1000 that were off live semen so its hard to compare if you kinda get where im goin

__________________
cell phone 563-419-1895
Bernard,IA

Nick

It probably won't work. Go ahead and make that cross, but I'm sure they won't amount to a hill of beans. Go ahead and send them all to me. I can work wonders on a seamen pup. But only I know how to do it. Lol

Jeff, you know no matter what I do it never works out lol

Top

Something else to think about is we do not have the same females as we had back then. Although it is hardly ever noticed but the female is a part of that reproductive system and counts towards what the dog will turn out like. It isn't always just the stud dog.

__________________
Calvin Romans

CH ‘PR’ Mafia’s Double Dose

quote:

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Originally posted by NE IOWA B&T MAN
Nick , there was walker dog out in western iowa that did a bunch of winning in pkc this year and he also won ukc walker days I believe.....I don't think it makes a diff if there from frozen or live semen but some people seem to think so but u also got to remember for every frozen semen pup there like 1000 that were off live semen so its hard to compare if you kinda get where im goin

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__________________
GRCH GRNITECH PKC CH 'PR' INSANE MADCAP
(GRNITECH SCH INSANE X x GRNITECH SCH HARRYS STYLISH QUZY) (3,000+ WON)

GRNITECH CH 'PR' HIGH X-PECTATIONS
(NUMBER 10 CURRENT REPRODUCER, 2008 KY STATECH)
HAVE SEMEN

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Breeder and Trainer of Belgian Malinois
828-577-6167

nick a friend of mine here in wyandotte has some dogs off rat semen and they are nice and they finished out pretty darn quick man. I know alot of people in the breed don't believe we should breed to frozen semen but it works so why not do it. but if it was me a would find a vet and have it surgically done that way you have i higher percentage rate of having puppies then with the traditional AI method. it must be something really good for you to go through this much thought about it.

__________________
shawn stovall
wyandotte, ok
shawnstovall2001@yahoo.com
918-961-2434
Home to:
Pr S&J's Shack's Backwoods Patches (walker)
'PR' Stovall's Black Knight Wild Willy
Past Home to:
dual grand stovall's black knight george (gone but not forgotten)
pr D&S' black little luke (1st and 3rd place wins) (davis black luke x paynes black june) gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Davis' black hutch (gone but not forgotten)

Re: GRNTCH FISHCREEKS DIRTY JOE

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry D Walker
A redbone semen pup

Nt Ch in 3 hunts at 15 months old

Grnt at 26 months old

High scoring redbone male at 2 yrs old 2012 ukc world hunt!!!

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__________________
Country Boy Can Survive



Anderson County Coon Club
Lance White
865-919-7234

Thanks Bud

He suits me and he looks better in the dark when you unsnap him

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

semen pups

quote:

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Originally posted by CGRADR07
Something else to think about is we do not have the same females as we had back then. Although it is hardly ever noticed but the female is a part of that reproductive system and counts towards what the dog will turn out like. It isn't always just the stud dog.

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