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-- Rules ? In preprration for zones...Allen or Paul (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928337480)

Rules ? In preprration for zones...Allen or Paul

Could you clarify the one minute rule as used in a UKC nite hunt please. We had a discussion on this at a local club and nobody could agree on the proper use. Thanks!

All it is you do not have to strike your dog in the first minute of every turn loose. after the first minute is up you have to strike on or before the 3rd bark. Some people make this rule harder to understand than it is.

Thank you! The main argument by others was that any dog struck inside the minute had to carry the track out as its written in another KC.

I think the confusion for people on rules is that many people hunt at least 2 different KC's if not 3 or 4 and they run all the rules together in their head... and then no one wants to admit that they are wrong!

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I thought you were talking about walking a minute from each tree. Oops wrong KC lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Toler
I think the confusion for people on rules is that many people hunt at least 2 different KC's if not 3 or 4 and they run all the rules together in their head... and then no one wants to admit that they are wrong!

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CHGRNTCH "The Dirty Rat"

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So to clarify a dog struck inside the minute in UKC only has to open once in 8 minutes to keep from bring minused? This was the argument everyone believed you minused the dog if it did not keep opening and obviously carry the track away.

You are completely misunderstanding the one minute grace period. The one minute rule you are asking about requires NOTHING whatsoever, it just gives your dog one minute off the snap to bark without any requirement to strike. That's it, nothing more.

UKC has no rule and has never, that I know of, made any requirement for a dog to do anything after it is struck, whether it be before or after that first minute, other than show the judge it is running a track and bark once every 8 minutes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlackElK
Thank you! The main argument by others was that any dog struck inside the minute had to carry the track out as its written in another KC.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Jim that's my point in all!! I agree with you but at several local clubs and in recent hunts I've heard judges trying to minus dogs inside the minute for not carrying a track out. Just trying to get Allen or Paul to verify with the zones approaching as several of these JUDGES will be trying to minus on UKC's minute rule! It don't matter to me most of the time mine usually don't bark in the first few minutes lol

Copied from an Advisor column

Babbling
Q: In my part of the country it is being ruled that whenever dogs are declared struck in the first minute they must open again within 15 or 20 seconds or they will be minused for babbling. I have not found any such rule to back this up. Could you give us some clarification on the one-minute rule and babbling dogs? BG/GA

A: The one-minute rule is merely a grace period where a handler is not required to strike a dog that is opening regardless of whether the dog be on a legitimate track or just loose barking. If a dog has a habit of loose barking or babbling when it is released, it gives the handler a little grace period to avoid from taking a minus within the first minute each time a dog is released.
The one-minute grace period and determining whether a dog is babbling are not related. Babbling is defined as, “when a dog opens three times or has been struck where no track is evident.” A dog may be mouthing on the lead before it is released and continues giving mouth until the handler has no choice but to strike the dog because the one minute grace period has expired.
If it is determined that the dog is still babbling or opening where no track is evident then it should be minused immediately. Same way for a dog that may open once or twice within the first minute of being released and is declared struck by the handler but the Judge determines either by actions of the dog or otherwise that the dog is opening where no track is evident, then it also should be minused immediately regardless of any time frame.
A dog might not open until after the first minute of being released and could still be minused for babbling. Although in most cases it would be highly unlikely to make such a determination when the dog may be a good distance away from cast members.
Minusing a dog(s) for babbling requires one to use good educated judgment. Therefore, when it comes to determining whether a dog(s) is babbling; using a time frame should not be used when making that decision.

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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

All you can do if a hunting judge misinterprets a rule is to politely question his call by asking for a cast vote, If that doesnt work place a question on the card in a sportsmanlike manor and hunt on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlackElK
Jim that's my point in all!! I agree with you but at several local clubs and in recent hunts I've heard judges trying to minus dogs inside the minute for not carrying a track out. Just trying to get Allen or Paul to verify with the zones approaching as several of these JUDGES will be trying to minus on UKC's minute rule! It don't matter to me most of the time mine usually don't bark in the first few minutes lol

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Well I have a question on this, I hunt my dog this weekend with a buddy struck him under 10 seconds then he shut went in 20 yards searched for 5 minutes then Blew the top out. Now was he considered babbling? I dont think so but what do you think

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Im striking mine on the first millisecond of there first bark. 2 seconds in or almost 2 hrs. Most times a judge can't minus them anyhow in this day and age. Just cause its not only going to be one dog. Its going to be 2,3 or even all of them. The ones that complain the most in a hunt. Im not talking about anyone here. Is the ones hunting a fast strike dog and they get beat to the punch. Its down right funny to watch sometimes!

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Michael Ghorley

Matt, here's to confirming what Jim, Oak Ridge and few others have said is right on target. No such thing as using any time period to determine babbling.

I'll agree there are some real dandy home-made generic versions of dealing with babbling dogs out there. Usually coming from the same ones hunting a babbler.

i want to know how all of you determan if a dog is babbling????

i had a NTCH. female was in a hunt it was raining hard we cut them lose she went 30ft opened on track i struck her she was running the track and the judge says she is babbling because no other dog has opened so i'm going to minus her , well we started to have a talk about it and about that time she come treed, i treed her ( NO OTHER DOG OUT OF THE other 3 HAD OPENED YET) the 5 was up we walked into the tree and she was under the coon.

if the person handalling the dog knows it is babbling he should be man enough to step up and say it is,

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Skip, you KNOW when a dog is babbling, any dog that's cut off the leash, not just yours. The problem is that most of these guys judging UKC casts today haven't had 30 years behind these hounds. Heck, a bunch of guys out there judging casts haven't been into this sport for even 5 years. Those are the guys that need time limits and written definitions to know when a dog is babbling. I'm not so much criticizing those guys, they are at least trying. But I think babbling is the single most difficult fault to judge, especially on a nite hunt cast and we are gonna always see a great variation on how it is judged.

Every KC has tackled and retackled this issue and, in my worthless opinion, only AKC has ever really found a decent solution.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

One thing that might help this situation is if a judge thinks he has a babbler on the cast, maybe he could inform the cast right up front how he will judge the babbling rule on that cast. At least then, the cast will know what is coming at them. Give them that first drop, explain what will bring minus on the next and then stick to it. Would that work?

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

you are right Jim and i agree about AKC

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Thanks guys for helping clear that up! It doesn't usually come into play with dogs I hunt as I prefer a tighter mouth on track but I've been to several hunts lately where all I've heard is misusing dogs for not carrying the track out of the area... It is what it is!! Thanks Again

i myself agree that any man or women that has hunted very long knows when dogs are babbling or not. but not many will admit it an that's when the problems start. i was judging a hunt one night guys dog was opening on leash an kept opening when turn loose. dog opened 15 or 20 times guy struck the dog. dog went almost out of hearing before reopening. i warned him as someone on this post suggested. the next turn out the same thang happened i minused the dog for babbling. the guy flipped out an said prove to me their is no track where my dog opened. an i agree the part about no track is nearly impossible to prove but the babbling is not hard at all when u have hunted several years. i thank the part of ukc saying about being oviouse a track isn't present is wat causes most of the babbling dog arguments. i also agree an like the way akc does it. it keeps the bablers from running away points wise from the rest of the cast

I agree, most people carrying a babbler will flip out when you minus them, but as a judge you (we) just need to stand our ground and call it like we see it. The handler can question it and call for a cast vote and we may get overruled, but we did our job by judging it the way we saw it, thats all we can do about it.

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Would dog tracking be considered babbling? How should a judge handle this if he determines dog(s) to be dog trailing other hounds in the cast?

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quote:

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Originally posted by jculler8
Would dog tracking be considered babbling? How should a judge handle this if he determines dog(s) to be dog trailing other hounds in the cast?

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