UKC Forums - Crossbred breed

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-- Crossbred breed (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928308077)

Posted by easttxranch on 03-13-2013 10:22 PM:

Crossbred breed

Who would like to see UKC form a new breed for crossbred hounds like Walker x Redbone or Plott X Bluetick and so on?

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Posted by Brother David on 03-13-2013 10:35 PM:

Breed no give chance to hunt yes

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Posted by easttxranch on 03-13-2013 10:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
Breed no give chance to hunt yes

I agree with giving them a chance to hunt, just wondering how many people would like to see a seperate breed. There are some that dont want them hunting at all. All I want is for crossbred dogs to be given a chance to compete in UKC events.

Posted by Brother David on 03-13-2013 10:53 PM:

I think we have enough breeds but crossbreed sectionals and so on seems ok

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Posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE on 03-13-2013 11:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
Breed no give chance to hunt yes

I agree

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-13-2013 11:23 PM:

why would a pure bred registry even consider this... most cossbreeds if you want to go thru the trouble can already be single registered so i dont understand the concept

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-13-2013 11:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
why would a pure bred registry even consider this... most cossbreeds if you want to go thru the trouble can already be single registered so i dont understand the concept

Why...... because those dogs would pay an entry fee to hunt just like everybody else. They allowed grade dogs to hunt for years.

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-13-2013 11:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Why...... because those dogs would pay an entry fee to hunt just like everybody else. They allowed grade dogs to hunt for years.

if they do it i still dont see why they should form a new breed for it

Posted by JiM on 03-14-2013 12:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Why...... because those dogs would pay an entry fee to hunt just like everybody else. They allowed grade dogs to hunt for years.

They still do. Any club can run a grade dog hunt. You know why nobody does anymore? Because nobody wants to compete with grade dogs anymore.
This idea comes up about once a month. it's really a nonstarter. How many guys do you know that hunt grade dogs or want to breed them?

If you are bound and determined to cross a Bluetick with a Walker or something of that sort, PKC is ready to give you full registration privileges as a Crossbred or you can go the UKC single registration route.

Oh, and by tha way, UKC does not and never has formed new breeds. Breed Associations do that. Ask the Leopard guys about it. They have the most recent experience with getting a new breed recognized.

Of course you have to have a new breed first. That should take a good 20 years or so of generational breeding. Better get started.

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Posted by Frank Moore on 03-14-2013 12:12 AM:

Ukc has a cross bred all ready it's called leopard hounds

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Posted by shinerunner on 03-14-2013 12:13 AM:

Why we have the leopard hounds already. Aren't most if those cross breed dogs that are single reg?

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Posted by Larry D Walker on 03-14-2013 12:21 AM:

INFO TO CONSIDER UKC ALL READY HAS

OPTION # 1

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-14-2013 12:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
Breed no give chance to hunt yes

i agree with you

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-14-2013 12:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
You cant single register a hound in the bluetick breed if you knowingly cross breed it. I stirred a big pot of sh!t with it one time. You can lie your @$$ off and say you dont know OR maybe breed a walker and say the pups are out of a female you have.
DON'T TELL ME THAT DON'T HAPPEN!!!

but you can register it as english

Posted by easttxranch on 03-14-2013 01:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
I'm not going to hijack this mans post but my point is the breed associations force folks into dishonesty. We all know a bluetick breeder isn't going to register one as a english.

Any further conversation please call,text or PM me

Redbone has the same thing. You can single register a red dog that you find on the side of the road or at an animal shelter, but you cant single register one that you know is half walker or any other breed, even if it is solid red and meets all redbone breed standards.

Basically they are saying you can lie about it and single register the dog, but if you are honest about it, you can't single register your dog.

Posted by patches9452 on 03-14-2013 01:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
I'm not going to hijack this mans post but my point is the breed associations force folks into dishonesty. We all know a bluetick breeder isn't going to register one as a english.

Any further conversation please call,text or PM me

the point is... if you want to hunt cross bred hounds you can.... do your homework get it single registered and hunt it if thats what you like.... no need to change the rules as they are now

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 01:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
You cant single register a hound in the bluetick breed if you knowingly cross breed it. I stirred a big pot of sh!t with it one time. You can lie your @$$ off and say you dont know OR maybe breed a walker and say the pups are out of a female you have.
DON'T TELL ME THAT DON'T HAPPEN!!!

The redbone breed is the same way...you can't single register a known crossbreed....but we got a guy over on the redbone forum saying that he has checked and you can register known crossbreeds in every other breed but the redbone breed and we should change to be just like all the other breeds. I think single registration is either closed all together or the same way in some other breeds also. I like the way pkc has it. If you want to make a crossbreed...they have an option for it and you can be honest about it and compete against the other breeds. I wish ukc would make the same option so people would quit lying and trying to slip crossbreeds into the pure bred breeds....Shane

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
the point is... if you want to hunt cross bred hounds you can.... do your homework get it single registered and hunt it if thats what you like.... no need to change the rules as they are now

Thats not an option in some breed associations....they don't allow it.

Posted by BlueTickNC on 03-14-2013 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
I'm not going to hijack this mans post but my point is the breed associations force folks into dishonesty. We all know a bluetick breeder isn't going to register one as a english.

Any further conversation please call,text or PM me

The best thing to do is lie like alot of the BIG TIME BLUETICK breeders do!!!!!JMO!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Dwils on 03-14-2013 01:57 AM:

About every breed out there had pointer, collie, setter or in some form was bred to some random mutt back in the day. FACT. Where do blue eyes, flag tails , corse hair come from? Hunt with many of the hammer bred blue dogs and they will point and their tails are set high like a bird dog.

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Posted by TrackDrifter on 03-14-2013 02:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
They still do. Any club can run a grade dog hunt. You know why nobody does anymore? Because nobody wants to compete with grade dogs anymore.
This idea comes up about once a month. it's really a nonstarter. How many guys do you know that hunt grade dogs or want to breed them?

If you are bound and determined to cross a Bluetick with a Walker or something of that sort, PKC is ready to give you full registration privileges as a Crossbred or you can go the UKC single registration route.

Oh, and by tha way, UKC does not and never has formed new breeds. Breed Associations do that. Ask the Leopard guys about it. They have the most recent experience with getting a new breed recognized.

Of course you have to have a new breed first. That should take a good 20 years or so of generational breeding. Better get started.

Nicely said!!

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 02:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dwils
About every breed out there had pointer, collie, setter or in some form was bred to some random mutt back in the day. FACT. Where do blue eyes, flag tails , corse hair come from? Hunt with many of the hammer bred blue dogs and they will point and their tails are set high like a bird dog.

What is your point? We know all hounds came from the same dogs way way back.....but then ukc and akc started a purebred registry and some breeds want to try to keep it as pure as possible. Of coarse some people will lie and paper swap or try to slip a cross breed through in a breed that doesn't allow it.
Do you think that with pkc creating a crossbreed option for those who want to hunt those types of dogs...that it eliminates the desire for people to try to single register them by lying and saying they are not crossbreeds? I like that option in pkc because it...and dna profiling for their programs keeps things honest.

Posted by amazingcursouth on 03-14-2013 03:42 AM:

don't ever think that behind the barn breeding is not still taking place. many dogs are being bred and they slap another dogs papers to the litter far as sire and dam go. i know it happens and tried to talk a guy out of it in the late 80's. all i am saying is that by not allowing a crossbred grade dog to hunt many are watering down pure bred lines by practicing such things. take the hooch dog for example, that was an intentional cross and he was reg with ukc as an english, used as a stud and won some hunts.

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Posted by Dwils on 03-14-2013 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
What is your point? We know all hounds came from the same dogs way way back.....but then ukc and akc started a purebred registry and some breeds want to try to keep it as pure as possible. Of coarse some people will lie and paper swap or try to slip a cross breed through in a breed that doesn't allow it.
Do you think that with pkc creating a crossbreed option for those who want to hunt those types of dogs...that it eliminates the desire for people to try to single register them by lying and saying they are not crossbreeds? I like that option in pkc because it...and dna profiling for their programs keeps things honest.

Not making any point at all Shane , other than to the guys criticizing . I personally don't have a problem with barn breeding . I just look at things with an open mind . Every breed has faults you can drive a car through . And IMO cross breeding and selectively breeding and culling could offer and bring alot to the table

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 04:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dwils
Not making any point at all Shane , other than to the guys criticizing . I personally don't have a problem with barn breeding . I just look at things with an open mind . Every breed has faults you can drive a car through . And IMO cross breeding and selectively breeding and culling could offer and bring alot to the table

you got some nice dogs Daniel. But you may feel differently when you have been breed for 10 or 20 years. Crossbreeding is the most extreme kind of outcross and more often than not....it does not produce the consistent results that line breeding programs produce. You may get a great dog every once in a while but line breeding is more apt to get you litters of great dogs. Once you have a line of dogs that are consistently giving you what you want...you need to lock those traits in by linebreeding or inbreeding. When you outcross before those traits are locked in....you stand to lose them in the resulting offspring. But don't take my work for it...just look at what successful breeder programs do in dog, cattle, horses and other animals. Almost all are built around linebreeding. To get even a small amount of success with an extreme outcross one of the parents had better be a super dominant reproducer of the traits you consider important.

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