UKC Forums - knowledge n experience on backtrackin

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-02-2013 01:14 AM:

knowledge n experience on backtrackin

i know what ur thinkin a den tree, but no
There is more to it than that. alot more. like how bad certain dogs can be? do they get better or worse with age? why they backtrack? any experience with breeding them? etc?

A little secret most people dont want to admit all dogs will backtrack at some point in there life.

so anyone who has hunted alot should have knowledge to share.

Posted by Whordel on 03-02-2013 02:12 AM:

My first Coondog that I ever had was given to me. I did not know anything about a dog but I hunted him hard. He was given to me at the age of just turning 2 because of his backtracking. Nobody gave him a chance and tried to correct him, more or less so that I now know it was a lack of poor handling and training on the peoples hands that he went through. He was a hard hunter, had a big booming track mouth and still have not heard to this day a dog as loud as him on the tree but he would work the track correctly into the tree, tree a little while and turn around and run it backwards as fast as he did forward. All he needed was fur and to be handled and praised. I would walk my butt off getting to him before he left. I praised and loved on him and gave him the meat and after a hard 4 or 5 months of hunting him I never seen him run another back track up to the day I sold him 4 or 5 years later. Im not saying all dogs can be fixed. He was the best I ever had owned, he was one of the best and had beaten the best around here and people who hunted with him knows it rather they want to admit or not. The most accurate dog that I have ever seen period! He was bred 3 times that I know and reproduced nice dogs that trees coon and never reproduced the first dog that I know of that back tracked. He is also is the sire of my young dog Jake.

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Posted by headless01 on 03-02-2013 03:00 AM:

more than likely he was taught to back track through training method.

Posted by bigdog061 on 03-02-2013 03:42 AM:

How do you teach a dog to back track?

Paul

Posted by tlc on 03-02-2013 08:06 PM:

back track

ask whordel

Posted by slobbermouth21 on 03-02-2013 08:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigdog061
How do you teach a dog to back track?

Paul

usen that store bought scent will cause it...hunting it as a pup with a ****** dog will cause it a lot of stuff.

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Been foolen with walkers since I was five be
foolen with them on the day I die.

Posted by patches9452 on 03-02-2013 08:26 PM:

a lot of people train backtrackers simply by not free casting them... as in sending down a creek but will not let the dog go behind them... im guilty of this myself... most time there is some reason i dont want the dog on the other side of the road but it will make one wanna backtrack sometimes

Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-02-2013 08:33 PM:

Most pups will backtrack some. Most will be smart enough to come out of it on their own... That's part of having brains. You can't train a track dog... You can't break a back tracker. If it continues to happen, cull and start over.

Posted by patches9452 on 03-02-2013 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nat Thomas
Most pups will backtrack some. Most will be smart enough to come out of it on their own... That's part of having brains. You can't train a track dog... You can't break a back tracker. If it continues to happen, cull and start over.

you may not can train a track dog but if they have any desire you can make track dogs out of most.... keep testing their limits as to what they can handle and they will either quit or get better.... i want hunt one that quits

Posted by Whordel on 03-03-2013 03:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
you may not can train a track dog but if they have any desire you can make track dogs out of most.... keep testing their limits as to what they can handle and they will either quit or get better.... i want hunt one that quits

I don't know what caused mine to do it when I got him but I fixed him and he would make most dogs look stupid especially in the winter time. I couldn't afford to hunt him in big hunts back then but I scratched up enough coin to go to Walker Days 1 night and hunted him and he destroyed the cast on 4 coon by himself and treed another 3 minutes after the hunt was over, babbling idiots cost him a 1st that night.

Posted by ghosthunter50 on 03-03-2013 04:38 AM:

back tracking is hard to correct, watched a buddys dog back track to a den tree one night..... dumb dog

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Posted by ghosthunter50 on 03-03-2013 04:45 AM:

have heard some guys say on this forum before that a hot track is hard for a dog sometimes and can run it backward. BUT a few years ago, we decided to take a 9 yr old walker that hadnt been hunted in 4 yrs, dog was turned out, struck off the road immediatley went right handed and treed close, he dog never hesitated to go the wrong direction. that was a track that was as hot as it can get.

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Posted by slobbermouth21 on 03-03-2013 05:03 AM:

If your just wanting your young dog to hone his tracking abilities...doesn't mean he will be a cold nose track dog but will have honed his skills faster then with a coon let him run junk preferably deer up and down nd across creeks etcthat is the best way to let that young dog hone his tracking skills...pretty soon with patience he will pretty much break himself and start fallen treed with coons...but you can't really put track power in a dog but if he got it you can use ways of letten him hone his skills...but I like a trashy dog that is starten out they always seem to be the best..might jot be a world beater but they will 98% of the time have the meat because they are meat dogs if it has fur they are gonna run it..

__________________
Been foolen with walkers since I was five be
foolen with them on the day I die.

Posted by Dirtdevil on 03-03-2013 11:18 AM:

Dogs don't track deer or coyotes for the most part , they chase them.

Nothing is better practice for trailing and running coon ...than to stick to coon . The worst advise ever is when folks advocate something as silly as running deer will make them better on coon.

Trailing and locating coon takes nose , brains and experience .... it doesn't take any of those to run deer ... every breed of dog known to man has been seen running deer hard .... but you won't see them grubbing up a cold coon track .

The reasons for backtracking , slick treeing , fighting, etc ... are as varied as the reasons the chicken crossed the road .

I've seen some horrible backtrackers , track washers , ghost trailers , self runners and so forth .... if we knew why they did it then we could fix it most of the time ...

The common denominator in all those dogs , imo ... was low intelligence and a colder nose ... those two are the recipe for some long nights hoping the pup aint doing what you think it's doing , lo.

Posted by cody jaster on 03-03-2013 01:57 PM:

Backtracking....a dog is ONLY as good as its nose is! Conditions do cause some of it. High humidity...ever seen dogs that could smell a track down by the creek but once 12 ft up on the bank they seem to loose it! They can back track alittle from this. Although, real backtracking is a bad fault and mostly it means the dog can't figure out which way the coon went... No nose power or just dumb dog ( can't or not willing to figure it out-lazy). Get rid of that one cause it's a dud. In my opinion, a real back tracker that is about 3 years old should have never made it to 3 yrs and certainly should never be bred!!!

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-04-2013 12:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cody jaster
Backtracking....a dog is ONLY as good as its nose is! Conditions do cause some of it. High humidity...ever seen dogs that could smell a track down by the creek but once 12 ft up on the bank they seem to loose it! They can back track alittle from this. Although, real backtracking is a bad fault and mostly it means the dog can't figure out which way the coon went... No nose power or just dumb dog ( can't or not willing to figure it out-lazy). Get rid of that one cause it's a dud. In my opinion, a real back tracker that is about 3 years old should have never made it to 3 yrs and certainly should never be bred!!!

i agree bad backtracking dogs should never b used for breeding. Its amazeing how many do get used for breeding tho. i think the reason they do get used so much is because the dog may have other good quailitys that the owener see like early startin or hard treeing etc. but they aernt knowledgeable enough to no it has this bad fault of backtracking. kinda blinded by the positive things the dog can do. in the beagle business backtracking is like one of the ultimate sins. that dont seem to b the case with coonhounds maybe for the reasons i posted i think. jmo

Posted by Whordel on 03-04-2013 01:22 AM:

Re: back track

quote:
Originally posted by tlc
ask whordel

If anybody knows anything about a dog you should know its already backtracking before its treed. Seen several dogs backtrack on a hot one,hard one to call, guys wonder how in the world did they miss that one, well heres your sign. If your seeing alot of dens especially when coons are moving good you have yourself a bad back tracker. I consider this type cull material and definitely shouldn't be bred. Jake rarely makes dens trees and when he does Ive been lucky and seen the coon alot of times. When I first got my old dog at a young age he would never ever take a track backwards to begin with, only when he finished it out, locate and tree and then run it backwards. I believe alot of his was handler error but anyways he made the toughest hound I ever owned and like I said none of it came out in his pups which also helps me believe it was handler error.

Posted by TrackDrifter on 03-04-2013 03:33 AM:

All dogs will BACK TRACK some! But something ain't right if the majority of the tracks they run get colder instead of hotter!!

Gr.Nt.Ch River Kennel Rock, I beleive I hunted against him in a few nitech cast pretty decent dog, with a well will say slick handler. He missed some in the hunts I hunted against him, but he did tree some coons and had a pretty good mouth.

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Posted by Whordel on 03-04-2013 12:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TrackDrifter
All dogs will BACK TRACK some! But something ain't right if the majority of the tracks they run get colder instead of hotter!!

Gr.Nt.Ch River Kennel Rock, I beleive I hunted against him in a few nitech cast pretty decent dog, with a well will say slick handler. He missed some in the hunts I hunted against him, but he did tree some coons and had a pretty good mouth.

I owned Rock and When I sold him a long time ago he had 1 or 2 wins toward grand and hadn't been in a hunt for almost 3 years when I sold him. They weren't no slick handling him, he spoke for hisself and he didn't miss and when he did it was about as rare as seeing a Sasquatch.He won both cast I put him at the Ironton Club by shutting out both cast by himself with the coon. He was a cast winner for sure, I won all casts I ever put him in but 3 in UKC and PKC combined. You could had hunted with him when Delmer Kouns bought him, he was probably around 7 or 8 then. Dont think its the same dog but it doesn't matter I have nothing to hide with any of my dogs.If anybody thinks my dog needs slick handling to win a cast give me a PM and I'll show em in the woods to anybody.

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-04-2013 02:31 PM:

well there is an odvious difference between bad handleing causeing or not corretting the problem and haveing the backtracking triat breed into them.

Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-04-2013 02:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by slobbermouth21
If your just wanting your young dog to hone his tracking abilities...doesn't mean he will be a cold nose track dog but will have honed his skills faster then with a coon let him run junk preferably deer up and down nd across creeks etcthat is the best way to let that young dog hone his tracking skills...pretty soon with patience he will pretty much break himself and start fallen treed with coons...but you can't really put track power in a dog but if he got it you can use ways of letten him hone his skills...but I like a trashy dog that is starten out they always seem to be the best..might jot be a world beater but they will 98% of the time have the meat because they are meat dogs if it has fur they are gonna run it..

it don't take much of a dog to fall off junk and tree a coon they do have a coon most of the time but they should junky dogs don't switch to a feeding track or a working track they switch to a red hot track that most any pup that has had a little training could tree may as well hunt buckets not much difference

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Posted by cody jaster on 03-04-2013 04:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog1
it don't take much of a dog to fall off junk and tree a coon they do have a coon most of the time but they should junky dogs don't switch to a feeding track or a working track they switch to a red hot track that most any pup that has had a little training could tree may as well hunt buckets not much difference

In 30 years I've had about 3 dogs that would really scorch a deer and they never could be broke totally from deer and I never saw them run a coon like they could a deer track! As for back tracking...ive never seen it MAN MADE, it's either in them or not. Again, it means the dog is NOT very intelligent and or it just doesn't have a good nose. Junky and backtracking faults should never be bred back too, ever!

Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-04-2013 06:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cody jaster
In 30 years I've had about 3 dogs that would really scorch a deer and they never could be broke totally from deer and I never saw them run a coon like they could a deer track! As for back tracking...ive never seen it MAN MADE, it's either in them or not. Again, it means the dog is NOT very intelligent and or it just doesn't have a good nose. Junky and backtracking faults should never be bred back too, ever!

i agree with you i know a guy aroud hear that don't try to break his dogs some of his older dogs are 7 or 8 years old and still run junk and switch they have gotten so good at it he thanks they stoped or at least that's how he talkes

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Posted by roughcreekhound on 03-04-2013 10:35 PM:

backtracking

I had a pup out of trackman once. I started hunting him with a older female i owned. She was extremely silent unless she was lookin at it. As the pup progressed and started tracking he would drive the track in there with the female there but not sayin a word, Then she would fall treed. The moment she fell treed he would come backwards a flyin barkin everbreath on the track they took in there. he would go huntin and strike a coon by himself but once the coon climbed he would run the back track. I sold him to a friend they told me third time out he started treein they said he made a coondog. I never was out with him no more. I guess I didnt have enough patients but a 12 to 14 month old dog thats been running since 8 months but still wont tree I cant keep them. And yes I ran a shock coller on him.Just my opinon. thanks for reading.

Posted by TrackDrifter on 03-05-2013 11:33 AM:

Bad handling and not being smart enough to know what your hound is doing wrong and when and how to correct the problem is one thing. But back tracking is not a man-made problem it is a bad trait that they are born with. Every dog will back track some but dogs that do it often, and dogs that don't break theirselves clearly lack intelligence, and should not be bred to, as this trait will come out eventually.

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