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UKC and the writing on the wall

As a 33 yr old I have pretty much grown up in the electronic age. I am not one of those people that you see checking there iphone every 10 seconds or surfing the web while out to eat with friends or family. Yes it has made my life easy, as far as looking things up and getting answers quickly. I am thanful for the time this convenice saves me. As a coonhunter I often check out the newest, latest and greatest gadgets out there. I have a habit of waiting a yr before I myself buy one of these hi tech toys. I like to wait till all the pro's and con's have been exsplored at someone else's cost not mine. Give the companies time to fix hardware issues and such.
So when the new alpha was released I was interested as I currently had a garmin 220 ( 2 of them) at the time. I was ready to up grade but I was worried that the alpha would be to much like the smart phones with the touch screens and not work in the cold and worried about getting them wet. So I upgraded to the 320 instead. I also was aware based on the current rules that I would not be able to carry the hand held of the alpha.
Then the day came when it was posted by UKC that they were being sponserd by Garmin. I saw the firestorm the minute I read the release. For Garmin it was all about the sales, and they know that the current UKC rules is keeping there sales down. If UKC changes the rules, sales go up it's simple.
This leaves the hunters in the cross fire. On one hand you have the new hunters that have grown up with all the hi-tech toys. They have never had to spend all nite woundering where there hound is. With the push of a button at the very least they know where there dog was just minutes ago. They know where every rd is and if there dog is getting to close, they can jump in there truck and head them off before they cross the highway. I myself am thankful to be able to do all of these things. I would never cut my dog loose again w/o a GPS collar on my hound. I have been able to figure each of my dogs out much faster with this technology. Possibly saved a few from getting lost or run over by a car. Has the garmin ever let me down, you bet. I have had collars go off and lost dogs for days. I have had my hand held freeze up or die on me.
While the garmin is a great tool to be used in time outs at UKC events, I think it would be a huge mistake to allow them to be used during hunt time. The nite hunts are a competion hunt between a hound and handler. Not who is the best at using technology.
1) Not everyone can afford them
2) They are not dependable
3) They give false readings (dogs treed, or 100 yrds behind were dog really is when running)
4) older hunter will be forced to use them and more than likely not enter hunts for that reason.
5) It only hurts the hard hunter that readys there dog for the hunt and allows the lazy hunter who don't know there dog w/o the garmin to have a chance.
6) will allow interferance of other hunting dogs if hanlder is allowed to shock or tone dog durning hunt time.
7) UKC hunt rules will have to be rewritten if this is allowed during hunt time. ( to many don't know the rules now as it is).

If UKC feels a need to have hunts to allow the use of Garmin's and shockers during hunt time, then set up hunts just for that like the HTX hunts. Write a set of rules with non hunting judges and all garmins can be used. That way people can choose to enter these hunts and the ones that want to keep the sport pure may do so as it is now. I would be willing to talk to anyone at UKC with an open mind on this subject. Feel free to call me at 419-563-4822 Rebecca Agee

good [post

thanks

AMEN BROTHER!!!!

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GONE BUT NOT FORGOTEN PR BO'SMOKEN LIL JAKE
NITECH ROGERS NELL
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CH GRNITECH PR'TIMBERCREEKS BLUE RUBY

The root of all this is in the fact that the Alpha is also an e-collar. That is what brought about all this stuff about using them in the hunts. Before, it was never really brought up much. The rule was very simple, in fact, the rule was exactly the same as the old radio tracker rules, you can carry it any time, you can only use it during timeout.
The Alpha changed all that because it has the e-collar and there is no way UKC ever had or ever will allow the use or even carrying of the e-collar transmitter during time in. That meant the Alpha was effectively outlawed for UKC hunts. (not really outlawed, you just can't carry it with you)
So with UKC's new major investment by Garmin, they have to come up with a way to get the Alpha in. That brought about the trial run at the Battle of the Breeds and got us to this point of discussion about allowing them in the hunts.
I'm 100% positive in my mind that none of the 3 management guys at UKC want Garmins powered on during hunt time. But they also know they HAVE to get the Alpha in some way.
Why in the world don't they just do it the easy way? Keep the rule we got, the rule we've always had, the rule that works just fine. You can carry anything you want but if it is powered on during time in, you are barred. Flat out gone, no further discussion. Sure, some will cheat. They will be caught. They will be barred. Nothing is perfect but you got what is proven and that which is not. The current rule is proven and it is all we need even today with the new technology.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
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AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

any dog finished out with electronics gets an asterisks * beside its title


* GRNITECH * PR Tone Broke Spot

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GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

This all sounds like common sense to me, why are we even in this discussion? Those of us who grew up before even tracking collars and ecollars don't need a device to handle our dogs. I have a Garmin, but it doesn't leave the truck, unless I want to track a dog. My two cents, Tom.

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Home of:
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Excellant post..It took much thought.

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Matt Grigas 1-774-253- 2334
Home of Dual Grand Champion PR Rats Stylish Sonny. Son of Rat Attack X Stylish Whitey Girl. UKC performance sire. Qualified for UKC World hunt 2013 & 2014.

Some of you are giving a Garmin way too much credit. I personally don't see how using the Garmin gives you an advantage in calling your dog. We must remember, no matter what the screen is showing you, the dog must be doing it in order to be scored. No way can a person call a dog by looking at the Garmin as fast as someone who knows their dog in and out can. Shocking devices are a different subject, but all this fuss about tracking devices is much a do about nothing.

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Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

All u people that dont want Garmin used n hunt need get some your dogs run over n hunt then you change your mind

I've had a couple what I call fairly decent dogs hit and killed. I still dont want garmin used in the hunts.

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Originally posted by runnin rebels
any dog finished out with electronics gets an asterisks * beside its title


* GRNITECH * PR Tone Broke Spot

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Walk softly and carry a big stick.

What the hecks it hurt to just leave it on. Leave it on. Get caught looking or shocking. Your scratched. Some people must go through life paranoid as crap. Not everybody is out to cheat you. I mean come on. If the dog grands out. Its still treed some Coon along the way. Regardless of Wether I had my garmin on or not!

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Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
What the hecks it hurt to just leave it on. Leave it on. Get caught looking or shocking. Your scratched. Some people must go through life paranoid as crap. Not everybody is out to cheat you. I mean come on. If the dog grands out. Its still treed some Coon along the way. Regardless of Wether I had my garmin on or not!

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For the record my best dog has been run over. Everytime we cut a dog loose we know that could happen. I hunt off of all blacktop rds and many St. Rts. Dogs get killed by yotes, buy land owners, traps, hung in trees, trains and countless other ways. It's the chance we take everytime we cut loose. You still always have the option of withdrawing, turning on your garmin and retreiving your dog if you feel there is danger. If the majority of the cast feels there danger time out is called and garmins can be turned on. If rules are changed and my dog just got treed the rest of the cast can say look at the garmin our dogs are by a road lets call time out before I can call treed. Guess what I don't get to score my coon. This is going to happen over and over having garmins on in nite hunts.

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Originally posted by T Felderman
I could go with that.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

When someone shows me a Garmin tree a coon I will agree with all these anti-Garmin posts. Until then your just wasting your time worrying.

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

I don't care either way on the whole garmin tracking part as long as it is never used in any scoring situations. But allowing garmins or tek1s with shocking ability is plain foolish on so many levels.

The training should be done through the week.

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Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
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Trevor Hack
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scenerio

If you got two dogs out of hearing. One guy has a Garmin and the other guy doesn't. The guy with the Garmin will hide behind a tree and quickly look, know what direction his dog is in and swear he hears him. If he's got his buddy on the cast he's gonna have help hearing. The way the rule is now you cannot have it on. This is the best way to leave it. I know any one can cheat and some will, but the rules that are working should be left alone. I would like to see a progressive tree rule change and nothing else. I would like to see a cast set up for grnitech to work like a slam event. Raise the entry fee to 30 bucks for themand have a cash payback.

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David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

Re: scenerio

quote:

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Originally posted by rghnd123
If you got two dogs out of hearing. One guy has a Garmin and the other guy doesn't. The guy with the Garmin will hide behind a tree and quickly look, know what direction his dog is in and swear he hears him. If he's got his buddy on the cast he's gonna have help hearing. The way the rule is now you cannot have it on. This is the best way to leave it. I know any one can cheat and some will, but the rules that are working should be left alone. I would like to see a progressive tree rule change and nothing else. I would like to see a cast set up for grnitech to work like a slam event. Raise the entry fee to 30 bucks for themand have a cash payback.

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Michael Ghorley

GA dawg

I'm not talking about treeing one out of hearing. I'm talking about striking one out of hearing or carrying the strike on. Okay all dogs are struck and two are treed. Tree is scored, the other two are out of hearing the Garmin is on. Other guy doesn't have a Garmin. Time is running and guy with Garmin powered on sneaks a peek and miraculously hears his dog. Garmin shows dog to be southwest 1.5. He knows what direction to walk in and how far. He gets cast within hearing in less than 8 minutes and dodges a minus.

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David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

SIMPLE SOLUTION.


SLEEP MODE

I have put this up before. People should think about this and if they like it cut and paste and send to UKC.
Proposal for Garmin to be used during a night hunt while in "SLEEP MODE".
Sleep mode- On the way to the woods Garmin can be turned on. When arriving at a turnout any handler using a Garmin puts there handheld unit into "SLEEP" mode by pressing a combo of buttons [example, 'dog', 'mark', 'menu'] simultaneously. This puts unit to "SLEEP". When in SLEEP mode the unit will display the UKC logo on it's screen and a COUNT UP TIMER will start. The unit will gather data but NOT allow user to see ANY data. It will save the trail that the dog took, it will save the trail that you walked. If the dogs goes out of range it will have the trail it took to where it went out of range [a well or cave, or just too far]. BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SEE ANY DATA YET. At any time a judge may request to see your Garmin. If you are 55 minutes into a drop then your Garmin COUNT UP TIMER better have 55 or more minutes on it. If it does not the judge has the option to scratch you. He may choose not to if your unit is off by a minute or two and may actually reflect that his watch or timekeeping methods are off by a bit. But if he thinks you purposefully had it on, then he may scratch you and if the cast thinks you used it to help locate and score a dog you can be barred. [Just like now, use of telemetry to score a coon is barrable offense]. If/when time out is called, users may "WAKE" up their Garmin to find their dog and/or their way back to the trucks or road. WHEN THE GARMIN IS WOKE UP IT WILL AGAIN REQUIRE A SPECIAL COMBO OF KEYS TO DO SO, AND IT WILL MAKE LOTS OF BEEPS OVER THE COURSE OF UP TO ONE MINUTE- IT WILL BE A NOISY EXPERIENCE WAKING IT UP. THIS IS TO AVOID USERS WAKING IT UP WHEN THEY ARE NOT TO. AND IF [DURING TIME IN], BY SOME ODD CHANCE YOU ACCIDENTALLY BUMPED THE BUTTONS AS YOU WERE REACHING FOR SOMETHING IN YOUR POCKET YOU COULD QUICKLY INFORM THE CAST AND EITHER WITHDRAW, BE SCRATCHED, OR ASK FOR THEIR UNDERSTANDING THAT IT ACCIDENTALLY HAPPENED.
Any electronic equipment as sophisticated as Garmin is capable of being reprogrammed to do new things. This could be a simple upgrade that can be done over the internet either for free or for a nominal charge. THIS REPROGRAM COULD ALSO AFFECT THE E-COLLAR ISSUE. THE E-COLLAR COULD ALSO BE DISABLED WHENEVER THE TRACKING UNIT IS IN SLEEP MODE. Surely the techies at Garmin could put a team of guys on this for a week to solve the reprogramming issue. Surely the crack staff at UKC could figure out a way to quickly approve of and adopt new policies to support this. It would be a feather in the cap of UKC as most other registries would follow suite, even to the point that at an AKC event it would be acceptable for your unit to be in the "UKC APPROVED SLEEP MODE". Plus Garmin could lock in future sales, create customer loyalty and even make a few bucks if they chose to charge 25$ for the upgrade.
I think this is a WIN, WIN, WIN for everyone. If you do also please cut and paste and forward to UKC staff.

forward to:
agingerich@ukcdogs.com

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if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

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Originally posted by MATTY G
Excellant post..It took much thought.

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get in the dark and get hooked

quote:

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Originally posted by michael.magorian
And then do something similar for dogs that win casts based on circle points as well, or would that nearly cut the number of GRNITECH's in half?

There have been multiple threads about this same issue, and it is always the same people with the same issues. If you think a Garmin, will help you tree your dog quicker, then you have very limited or no experience using a Garmin.

As far as Garmin sponsoring big UKC hunts, well that's the way stuff works. UKC wants bigger purses and prizes funded somewhere else, then they are going to have to hear what Garmin has to say, or possibly lose that sponsorship because of a conflict of interests.

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get in the dark and get hooked

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Originally posted by JiM
Me too.
On/off, it don't really matter as long as you can't have it out and using it. If you can't get through a two hour comp hunt without looking at it, you prolly aren't ready for the hunts. Some pups aren't ready for the hunts yet, some coonhunters never are.

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get in the dark and get hooked

crazy!

i don't see how anybody can think they can cheat by using a garmin even during hunt time? or get cheated?

my 320 is usually 30-45 sec BEHIND my dog when she's treed!!
I'm already heading to her when mine "beeps/vibrates"

be nice to know where my dog is at, if forced to hunt a small woods with roads on 4 sides!!
be nice to prove "joe schmo" just pitched his silent dog for 2nd strike !!
be nice to call timeout if dog{s} is out of pocket and on private property..before another dog gets treed and handler feels like he just got screwed over.

shocking part yes that could aid in outcome.
but knowing where your dog is no!!

still got to call the dog right,dog still has to have coon and stay treed with or with out the garmin.

you watch your garmin and i'll listen to my dog.you won't beat me that way.