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-- Why such a big deal about silent dogs? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=7156)

Why such a big deal about silent dogs?

If your dog is doing what he or she supposed to do, a silent dog is easy to beat.
If your dog is the type that pulls to everything that barks, then I can see where you would have a problem. Because when they barked they are treed, and thus shutting you out on strike.

I like hunting against them.

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People get jealous when their hound is running a good track and all of the sudden a dog takes it out from underneath of them and falls treed in front of them with the coon. People always talk crap about a silent dog but the truth is they would like to own that dog.

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Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

I believe both the rules and the breed standards both call for open trailing.

It's usually pretty easy to tell who hunts still mouth dogs and who doesn't by their stance on the subject.

Shannon, you are wrong. I wouldn't have the best silent dog that ever lived if you GAVE him to me. Just ain't my cup of tea. I want to hear the race and keep up with what is going on.

I have never been beat by a silent dog period. If I got beat by a silent dog on a pleasure hunt I would just compliment the guy on having a great coondog. I like any dog that has the coon and unlike alot I will tell you great job when your dog shows mine up whether pleasure or competition hunting. I just won't own a silent dog any more than I will own a babbler or alligator. I just don't want a dog like that.

IT'S AGAINST THE RULES. That is what the big deal is. If you want a silent dog more power to you but the big deal is integrity and playing within the rules.


If I draw a silent dog in the hunts he goes back to the truck because of the rules. Allowing a silent dog to stay in a hunt is NO DIFFERENT THAN PLUSSING A POSSUM, they are both violations of the rules.

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Well said Rip.

Its a rule that is rarely enforced in my opinion. I've been on to many cast when there's been a silent dog, that was not scratched. But I've never been beat by one. So I guess they never bothered me that much. Same goes for a non-working dog, rarely enoforced rule for those me-to'n little cusses.

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RIP

Nice post. What about the semi silent dog?

BTW I got a new dog, u should call me.

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Black & Tan

One of the most accurate and quick tree dogs I ever owned was silent. I beat alot of dogs with him and several times at hunts at the national level. And was never scratched. If a dog can tree a coon before yours and get 125 on it that is how it should read on the score card. If a dog is continiously silent on trail it should be scratched. How long was the trail???? Where I am from you will have a hard time scratching a dog for being silent. Like I said it all boils down to a cast win. Jealousy...

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

Just for the record all of my dogs I have now are open trailers....

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

So a dog that is silent on track but barks on tree and is just as accurate as the next dog should be allowed to hunt in comp. hunts, as long as they don't beat you??? Just cause you don't hear a dog trailing doesn't mean they aren't working. I don't own a silent dog. But if a dog trees, and has a coon, but doesn't bark on track, doesn't mean it's a lesser dog. If you want a still mouth more power to you, it's not the dog's fault!!

im sorry buck creek - i got to disagree. it is against the rules to hunt a silent dog. ive hunted a semi silent dog in hunts.. i never got scratched either... dog wasnt silent all the time.. i guess tite mouthed would describe her.. i got warned. a few times.. always seem to open on track at least once during a hunt... she was a coon treeing machine.. .. ive owned a few silent dogs but never hunted them in hunts.. they were to put hides on a stretcher.. some were good at that but not as much fun to hunt for me... anyways rip said it a lot better than i could.. pete

true that it is against the rules but dont for get that the babbling dog is against the rules also and how many have drew out with one?i myself would much rather hunt with a silent dog than a babbling idiot anytime....just my opinion

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"ONCE YOU HUNT BLACK YOU'LL NEVER NEVER GO BACK"

This talk about a silent dog treeing ahead of your open trailer...silent dogs aren't always faster than an open dog if they are on the same track at the same time.

I don't care for them myself, being mostly a pleasure hunter. I want to hear the race.

In the Ozarks where I grew up, coon were scarce and the hollers were deep. You would spend a lot of time looking for a silent trailer there, because you'd have no idea which way he went.

As for the hunts, the rules are clear. When you take a still-mouthed dog to a hunt, you are in violation of what we call "Honor Rules."

I guess the rules sometimes are only as good as the honor of the competitors...

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It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

I guess it depends what registery you hunt in the most. Nice rule I guess. If you want to take away from a dog who trees the coon first. Why would you be against having a dog in the cast that is silent? You get strike points on him and may shut him out. Like I said you dont want him grabbing the tree out from underneath of your dog who has been running the track the whole time. That is the only reason you dont want the dog in the hunt. Why stereotype a silent dog? the dog that puts the coon up the tree is the coondog.
aAs for the rules go the people who have respect for the coondog in the cast usually wont scratch the dog for being silent. Like i said how long was that track? How do you know how far that coon ran. If it was the same track your dog was running maybe he should have been there alittle Quicker.
I did not know this was such a heated topic. I guess I will go back to the prohound forum where there are more important things to talk about.
"Your dog got 1st on that tree but he did'nt bark on the ground. I am gonna have to scratch him"

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

Shannon, the rule does NOT say silent once, it says CONTINUOUSLY silent. If the dog is by himself all night you can't scratch him for being silent because you don't know if he layed the coon up or not.

If he runs two tracks with the other dogs and is silent on both of them no matter if he gets first or LAST tree I will scratch him because he has continuously shown that he was silent by not opening on two different tracks that the other dogs DID open on.

I have no reason to be jealous, track speed and first trees have never been a problem with my dogs. It's just the rules and rules are rules. If you are honest, no matter which dog is the coondog, you gotta go by the rules. This means scratching a NTCH on the last drop for molesting off game even if he has racked up 800 plus and no minus before. Rules are rules and he is scratched no matter how good or bad he did. Same goes for silent dogs.

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Let's go huntin

It's a shame a few bad apples can spoil so much good fruit. UKC has a good system for the hounds and most pleasure hunters that go to the hunts walk a straight line. Too bad the gamblers and the crooks cause so much hardship. If PKC wants their type ..please come and get them!

To those defending silent hounds

Let me ask you this.....
How could you honestly strike a dog , that you know is silent on track , on his locate or tree bark?
These are honor rules right ?
Now , to me , the honorable thing to do would be to give up all strike points if your hunting a silent trailer !
How many of you would be willing to do this ?
NOT A ONE OF YOU I BET !
I'm not afraid of being beat by a silent dog if things were even , but they're not.
If my dog opens , your silent dog has a chance to come in and beat him to the tree because he hears my dog and that's fine. BUT , when your dog is working a track and not saying nothing , what chance does my dog have of coming in there and beating yours to the tree.
No matter how you look at it , the silent dog has an advantage !
And thanks to this post , I know alot of men I won't be buying pups from !

OK LETS SEE. MY SILENT DOG GET LAST STRIKE-25 AND FIRST TREE-125. THAT EQUALS 150. YOUR BABBLING DOG GETS FIRST STRIKE-100 AND SECOND TREE-75 THAT EQUALS 175 YOUR BEATING ME. SO WHY DONT YOU QUIT WORRING ABOUT THE SILENT DOG AND STOP YOUR BELLY ACHING AND GET YOUR SELF A QUICKER TREE DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I mean , your not honest enough to even give up 25 strike points !
Your silent dog doesn't deserve those strike points !
Strike points are for dogs that bark on trail !


And I never defended the babbling dog either so why did you throw that in there ?

I am not defending the silent hound. I am saying they are coondogs to rather they run the track a mile or the last ten feet.
I dont own a silent hound but have in the past.
As for you dirtdevil the PKC system is set up to award the all around hardworking coondog even if he dont run a track. Me too dogs and babblers usually get what they deserve.
Not knocking the UKC system at all.
Rip if you are that honest in all of your cast I want you to judge all of mine. I have not found a honest man who goes by the rules all the time. Rather they work for you or against you do you go by the rules??

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

EVERYTHING I OWN IS STILL MOUTHED IVE WON ALL OVER IN NATIONAL EVENTS AND HAVE NEVER HAD ONE THING SAID ABOUT IT. MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE IS A SILENT DOG. NOTHING AGAINST OPEN TRAILERS. IF I WANTED TO HEAR A RACE ID FOX HUNT. IM MORE INTERESTED IN THE FINALS OF THE TRACK NOT THE START OR MIDDLE OF IT. AND ANOTHER THING YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT A SILENT DOG TAKING A TRACK AWAY FROM AN OPENING DOG,MY MALE DOG IS BY HISSELF 90% OF THE TIME.JUST MY OPINION

There will be a time when the gamblers and cheaters are the only ones left at the hunts ...I've yet to hear much of anything positive about the night hunts and the people who hunt in them.

Yes, I do go by the rules whether they help or hurt me no matter what. I score everything the same whether my dog is there or not. I look for the coon whether my dog is there or not.

Matter of fact I found the coon that finished one of the board members dog to NTCH even though I had made a handling error and got MINUSED because I found the coon. I thought they were in a hole and mine won't stay at a hole, she knew what she would get but she would locate one a couple of times and hush and go on. I didn't tree her, got in there and the reason they were hushing was because they were on the edge of a 8 foot drop into the creek and they were falling off into the water and hushing till they could climb back up and tree. I knew I was minused strike if the coon was found, but I got him to look and walk a little by squalling. I knew he was huntin a place to hide so I hollered for somebody to come quick another cast member saw it for a second. It was a three dog cast, it was a HUGE green tree and the coon was never seen again. He was plussed and the man that won never saw the coon, just me and the other cast member. It would have never been seen if I wouldn't have squalled and found it.

I knew the whole time if I found that coon I was beat, but it is a COONDOG contest and a dog that trees a coon deserves the points he has coming to him even if I have to minus mine to do it. Right is right.

I didn't know him from adam at the time, and when we got back to the club his one coon won the entire hunt. He said that finished the dog to NtCh.

He was hunting a Boone dog and later I found out that he was none other than Sandhill.

If you hunt with me, whether I judge or not, you will be treated fair no matter who it helps or hurts and I WILL look for your coon just as hard as mine. I can't help it, it's just the way I was raised.

That may be why I am asked to judge if I ever show up at a club that knows me. Even if I show up at a hunt to spectate or just see who is there and don't bring a dog I am asked to judge as a non hunting judge.

Notice I didn't say they asked me to guide, those clubs that know me also know I ain't got no coons and I don't use buckets so they don't want me to guide LOL.

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Let's go huntin

You say its a coondog contest and the dog that trees the coon gets the points he deserves???? What if he is silent??? Make up your mind does the dog that trees the coon get the points or just the dog that RUNS and trees the coon.
???????

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

What part of me applying the RULES consistantly did I not make clear?

If I was in a PKC hunt then fine, he stays in the cast and IF he can win more power to him. In a UKC hunt it is against the rules and as stated above I won't knowingly break the rules whether it helps or hurts me.

ACCORDING TO UKC RULES HE DOESN'T DESERVE ANY POINTS BECAUSE HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SCRATCHED.

IF they change the rule then so be it, till then I WILL GO BY THE RULES.

There is no grey area, either you cheat or you don't. If I let a silent dog stay in a hunt AFTER HE PROVES TO BE CONTINUOUSLY SILENT then I have CHEATED and I won't do that for you, me, or anybody else. It's in black and white on the scorecard. There is no interpretation. I CAN'T KNOWINGLY LET A SILENT DOG HUNT WITHOUT BEING A CHEATER.

It works both ways though, I can't scratch a dog I THINK is silent unless he is on at least two tracks with dogs opening and I can judge him to be silent for myself. If he stays alone all night I don't KNOW that he is silent, therefore he won't get scratched.

Look, you or me may not like the rule but in order to be fair we have to enforce ALL the rules, not just the ones we like. Otherwise you would have some sayin they thought possums were just as hard to tree as coons and they start plussin them and coondogs are gettin beat by possum dogs. We can't make up the rules as we go, they are set and we MUST follow them untill they are changed or we lose all integrity.

UKC has several rules that I do not like, but I enforce them all whether I like them or not because I am playing THEIR game and it would be unfair to the other casts if I didn't.

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Let's go huntin

I'm still wondering how you get a silent track dog struck...?