UKC Forums - How many?

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-- How many? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=506786)

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 06-04-2012 01:12 AM:

How many?

After reading Allens article in the latest bloodlines will still be knuckleheads and minus a dog for being off the tree, or coming to great you, putting its nose on the ground, not being under the canopy of the tree? I had to fight and get in many unnecessary arguments with my Mouse dog because some of the things listed in that atricle. So how many will there be that still refuse to abide by the actual rule? I think that these guys and believe me there's alot of them should be wrote up and suspended or put on probation for clearly ignoring the rule in place to go by.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 06-05-2012 03:19 AM:

Guess everyone must have read and comprehended the article.

Posted by BigTimeRed on 06-05-2012 03:55 AM:

i read it, been on alot of cast where the nose on the ground arguement was used....allen article was good, it is still a judgement call, honest men know the deal and more often than not folks are honest. we do not judge tree style we judge coons in the tree.

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Posted by l.lyle on 06-05-2012 04:00 AM:

What did the article say about it?
When we were told to handle the dogs my dog wheeled took two jumps bounced her feet on my chest. I missed the collar and she was back on the tree in two jumps. I got minussed. About the last hunt I cared to be in a couple years ago now.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 06-05-2012 04:08 AM:

Llyle, there's a many competition hunters that expect to see your dog belly up on the tree barking its guts out. They dont realize a smart dog backs off the tree with company. Had a guy minus me with Mouse a while back. She was treed first and their dogs covered her, when something covers Mouse she greets me off the tree. Had a 1st and 1st on it. She was treed every breth for several minutes time we got to her. She did what I said she would greated me off the tree and judge said bud your dog had her head down when we walked in there your minised. I laughed and said yes sir she just treed this coon and stayed for several minutes but by gosh as we got close to the tree she just up and decided to trail around again. Moron, it doesnt feel to good to take 225 minuse when your dog treed the coon because its not a belly up tree dog.

Posted by l.lyle on 06-05-2012 04:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Llyle, there's a many competition hunters that expect to see your dog belly up on the tree barking its guts out. They dont realize a smart dog backs off the tree with company. Had a guy minus me with Mouse a while back. She was treed first and their dogs covered her, when something covers Mouse she greets me off the tree. Had a 1st and 1st on it. She was treed every breth for several minutes time we got to her. She did what I said she would greated me off the tree and judge said bud your dog had her head down when we walked in there your minised. I laughed and said yes sir she just treed this coon and stayed for several minutes but by gosh as we got close to the tree she just up and decided to trail around again. Moron, it doesnt feel to good to take 225 minuse when your dog treed the coon because its not a belly up tree dog.

The rules from the first hunt I was ever in said something to the effect of tree style peculiarites such as meeting you off the tree , you had to tell the gudge ahead of time. I normally had belly up treedogs but I would usaully advise the judge of it anyway because you never know what a dog might do. I had advised him. That's why I was surprised to get minus for putting head down and going back on trail in two seconds. I think some time a dog could get minused by some folks if the dog stands up on tree and then stands beside the tree never missed a lick. Well, certainly it's head is down as compared to when it was standing up on the tree.

Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 06-05-2012 01:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Llyle, there's a many competition hunters that expect to see your dog belly up on the tree barking its guts out. They dont realize a smart dog backs off the tree with company. Had a guy minus me with Mouse a while back. She was treed first and their dogs covered her, when something covers Mouse she greets me off the tree. Had a 1st and 1st on it. She was treed every breth for several minutes time we got to her. She did what I said she would greated me off the tree and judge said bud your dog had her head down when we walked in there your minised. I laughed and said yes sir she just treed this coon and stayed for several minutes but by gosh as we got close to the tree she just up and decided to trail around again. Moron, it doesnt feel to good to take 225 minuse when your dog treed the coon because its not a belly up tree dog.

so question it and take it to MOH. leaving the tree a coon is in whether its a competition or not is a fault. the way you described what happened you let your dog get minused since you stated she did what you said i would assume the cast knew she would do this so you let the judge beat your first strike and tree dog. i dont know something just doesnt seem right with some of the things you say on here.

Posted by JiM on 06-05-2012 02:29 PM:

I don't think that was Allen's article. I believe it was actually written by Todd Kellam. It was taken from the first edition of the Advisor book as written by Kellam.

As for the article itself, I just wish more judges and EVERY MOH would read it.

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Posted by dean jamerson on 06-05-2012 02:34 PM:

So what did it say, a dog had to bark on the ground to be considered off the tree?

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Posted by ONEDOGNIGHT on 06-05-2012 02:38 PM:

Is there a link where I can read it? Do not get the bloodline.

Posted by JiM on 06-05-2012 03:02 PM:

The gist of it was that all that is really required of a dog, once declared treed, is that it barks atleast once every two minutes and that it stays at the tree. What it does or doesn't do at the tree, including smelling around , nose on the ground, etc is of no consequence. All that matters, in terms of judging the dog, is that it barks and stays at the tree.

Posted by GA DAWG on 06-05-2012 04:10 PM:

I don't get bloodlines.SO I'll prolly still do what I think lol. I ain't waiting or giving one much time to go back. We all know if its treed or not! Matter of fact I minused one a few weeks back.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 06-05-2012 05:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I don't get bloodlines.SO I'll prolly still do what I think lol. I ain't waiting or giving one much time to go back. We all know if its treed or not! Matter of fact I minused one a few weeks back.

Was the dog winnimg the cast or potentially going to be? Thats usually when the big bad judge steps in and realizes he needs to get over on someone. Specially if he has already seen the dog tree a coon or 2 and do a good job of it. Please enlighten me cry on the things that I say that don't make sense. I would love to hear them. The sad part is you may tell the judge that your dog greats you and still get minused for it everytime. Think im joking show up to a few hunts and see for yourself. Its a judgement call in the woods and few MOHs will overturn a judgement call in the woods.

Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 06-05-2012 07:30 PM:

all i hunt is PKC now. i have not entered a UKC hunt since the year 2000 Winter Classic. these issues i read over on this forum are non existent on PKC forum. its obvious to me that there are very few qualified people carrying the scorecard and even less qualified hunters in the cast.
didnt mean to come off negative towards you, bad thing about message boards i reckon. all i was saying was it doesnt make any sense to take a minus without a question and a vote if judge was made aware that your hound does this. i personally dont like a hound meeting me off a tree and i consider it a fault, someone else may not which is fine if they are feeding it.

i was enlightened the other day about something that happened at a local ukc hunt saturday night. dog came off tree to meet cast walking in, they were only about 30 yards from tree when this happened, well said hound grabbed a tree roughly 30 yards from where they were originally treeing, all cast members saw this and this hound's tree was then circled. so this is a perfect example to me.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 06-05-2012 09:45 PM:

Ha their non existing on the other forum because as soon as you even meantion any problem or issue the thread will be deleted. That my friend is why they are not on there. A smart dog in my oppinion will set back aways from the tree in a crowd. You may disagree with that and i understand some dont like that but again thats why the article was written to begin with. Judge the dog. Not the way it trees or barks. I have said this time and time again. If your judging and a dog comes off the tree simply stop right there for a few seconds and if the dog shows the tree it was on score it. If it doesnt minus it its really that simple.

Posted by GA DAWG on 06-05-2012 09:57 PM:

One I minused the other night. I saw it leave the tree. Saw it make a loop. Saw it coming to us.Then saw it going away from me by tree with its nose in creek. I minused it right then. Handled my dog. Then that dog came back. Got his strike minused to lol. Ol feller was mad and withdrew but not like most whiney cry babies. He was mad at the dog. I don't blame him!!! Im not going to put up with it.

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Posted by calblu on 06-05-2012 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Was the dog winnimg the cast or potentially going to be? Thats usually when the big bad judge steps in and realizes he needs to get over on someone. Specially if he has already seen the dog tree a coon or 2 and do a good job of it. Please enlighten me cry on the things that I say that don't make sense. I would love to hear them. The sad part is you may tell the judge that your dog greats you and still get minused for it everytime. Think im joking show up to a few hunts and see for yourself. Its a judgement call in the woods and few MOHs will overturn a judgement call in the woods.

Ain't that the truth!

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 06-05-2012 10:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
One I minused the other night. I saw it leave the tree. Saw it make a loop. Saw it coming to us.Then saw it going away from me by tree with its nose in creek. I minused it right then. Handled my dog. Then that dog came back. Got his strike minused to lol. Ol feller was mad and withdrew but not like most whiney cry babies. He was mad at the dog. I don't blame him!!! Im not going to put up with it.

to the creek he just wanted a drink its hot in those woods.i even got
a drink out of one the other night.

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Posted by Bluwalker on 06-05-2012 10:16 PM:

I agree with Hoosier, I like a dog to sit off the tree. Yeah yeah, it looks impressive when old shep is all sprawled out up on the wood. But fact of the matter is at some point poor shep is going to have 1 dog landing on his face while the other dog is barking at his face(another topic completely). A dog that sits back avoids all that nonsense, and as long as they are indicating the tree they are treeing on what's wrong with that? However I would minus a dog that is running aimlessly off the tree or not indicating it.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 06-05-2012 10:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
to the creek he just wanted a drink its hot in those woods.i even got
a drink out of one the other night.

If hes drinking. He aint treeing.

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Michael Ghorley

Posted by josh on 06-05-2012 10:38 PM:

This is all well and good, but your fooling youself if you dont think you will eventually be minused for having a lose tree dog...Right or wrong, dont matter....It will probably happen at the worst possible time.

Again....You have to beat em' so they cant take it from you.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 06-05-2012 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
If hes drinking. He aint treeing.

well if he is meeting and greeting is he treeing?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 06-05-2012 10:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
well if he is meeting and greeting is he treeing?

Nope thats why they need minused. I'll give some leway though.

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Michael Ghorley

Posted by l.lyle on 06-05-2012 11:05 PM:

That's the problem right there. They take too much leeway, mostly with a dog they consider serious competition or one that is already ahead. Whatever the Advisor said is all the leeway you have to utitize your leeway on.

Probably two years ago I did my rampage on here about having to bow and courtsey to the Queen just right or ELSE. Also about must be belly up on the wood and one arm wrapped around the tree and the new style treedog has to have one foot cocked like a Pointer. I made that up the same way they made it up about got to hold on to a tree like a beetle shell.

Posted by calblu on 06-05-2012 11:48 PM:

Just because my dog doesn't tree exactly the way someone else expects a coondog to tree doesn't automatically make it a fault.
I'm with those who prefer a dog to sit back off the tree a little and stay out of the traffic jam. If I could put in an order for every one of my future dogs to tree like that, you bet I would!
And yes, my dog will come greet me off the tree 9 times out of 10. Knock yourself out if you feel threatened enough to want to minus her for it.

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