UKC Forums - Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

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Posted by T Felderman on 05-17-2012 02:18 AM:

Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

What are some thoughts. Do dogs that start treeing early around 3-6 months coming up short a bit more when they get older?

Posted by GA DAWG on 05-17-2012 02:28 AM:

According to who has em.

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Posted by l.lyle on 05-17-2012 02:57 AM:

My experience is absolutely, positively, YES.

Posted by GA DAWG on 05-17-2012 03:07 AM:

So at what age do they start slicking then?

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Posted by l.lyle on 05-17-2012 03:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
So at what age do they start slicking then?

I killed ten years messing with built in treedogs. I hope they are better now.Cause I finally quit with them. Treeing will come with age and experience to me but it is a hard trait to get rid of on stupid. For me, October is time to start because the gators slow down plus coon season is in plus coon families are still cutting acorns . Walk in a Live oak grove and your 4 month old pup goes to treeing right off the bat with a family of coons and it is easy to get impressed to the point of stupid. That same line or breeding or whatever , I have noticed treed alot on canal banks after a good bit of boo around trailing cause they didn't want to follow any more. I think that is when they start to learn how to slick. I think most dogs have to learn how to slick. Another good indication is to drive too close to where they are trailing and something sits down and goes to treeing when it sees your truck lights coming. Another indication is slipping in to catch a dog trailing on property he ain't supposed to be on and see how many set down and tree just before you sneak up on him. And finally a dog been trailing around for an hour and you start calling and immediately he sits down treeing. You know good and well he is just saying plain as Day , "Come and get me". " I have been bred not to ever come in". LOL

Posted by matkno on 05-17-2012 03:31 AM:

Thats a pretty good question,id say it depends alot on how they start out .Ive seen some start out really good and then go threw a stage where they start to mess up alittle and with alittle correcting turn out to be right nice dogs .If they start out slick treeing id be worried .

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 05-17-2012 03:45 AM:

DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT BUT I HAVE SEEN A FEW BURNOUT AND HAVE TO BE GIVIN A BREAK AT ABOUT A YEAR OLD ...NOT ALL BUT SOME....

Posted by on 05-17-2012 02:18 PM:

Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
What are some thoughts. Do dogs that start treeing early around 3-6 months coming up short a bit more when they get older?

Absolutely They slick more or they burn out.I prefer a dog that can trail first then tree.A track must end somewhere and a lot of tree dogs lack a lot in the track department.A lot of pups that tree early will go through the woods smelling trees instead of hunting.
I'll take a pup that can trail over one that trees first cause when he figures out the track ended at a tree he will start treeing.

John Longbow Littlejohn
Cherokee Proud

Posted by Larry Atherton on 05-17-2012 02:52 PM:

Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
What are some thoughts. Do dogs that start treeing early around 3-6 months coming up short a bit more when they get older?

If you start making general statements like above, all you end up doing is selling yourself and various dogs short.

There are too many variables to make such a judgement on a 6 month old dog. The only thing I can tell you for sure is working a young dog who naturally shows the treeing trait is much easier than one that don't.

I said it before on here 80-90% of slick treeing is due to handling error.

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Posted by JiM on 05-17-2012 02:56 PM:

Re: Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
If you start making general statements like above, all you end up doing is selling yourself and various dogs short.

There are too many variables to make such a judgement on a 6 month old dog. The only thing I can tell you for sure is working a young dog who naturally shows the treeing trait is much easier than one that don't.

I said it before on here 80-90% of slick treeing is due to handling error.

There yah go, that answers it purty good.
I haven't had one yet that could tree wild coons alone at under 6 months so I can't answer the question from personnel experience but I don't believe early starting has any downside.

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Posted by jabrown on 05-17-2012 02:59 PM:

Re: Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
If you start making general statements like above, all you end up doing is selling yourself and various dogs short.

There are too many variables to make such a judgement on a 6 month old dog. The only thing I can tell you for sure is working a young dog who naturally shows the treeing trait is much easier than one that don't.

I said it before on here 80-90% of slick treeing is due to handling error.

I agree. If y'all find two that are the same, then someone probably sold you your dog back.

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Posted by goodtimekennel on 05-17-2012 03:03 PM:

Re: Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by longbowlj
Absolutely They slick more or they burn out.I prefer a dog that can trail first then tree.A track must end somewhere and a lot of tree dogs lack a lot in the track department.A lot of pups that tree early will go through the woods smelling trees instead of hunting.
I'll take a pup that can trail over one that trees first cause when he figures out the track ended at a tree he will start treeing.

John Longbow Littlejohn
Cherokee Proud

YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED SOME OF THE BOO TICKS I HAVE HAD

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Posted by Dan D. on 05-17-2012 04:03 PM:

early

I agree with alot of the comments on here, but i would like a pup to show interest in treeing when they are young. The reason being is you can spend 8 to 12 mths on a pup and the tree and stay treed gene never shows up. A pup that will tree can learn to track, although they might not be a great track dog. Its hard to put the tree in them if its not there. jmo

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Posted by on 05-17-2012 04:55 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by goodtimekennel
YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED SOME OF THE BOO TICKS I HAVE HAD

I hunt bear,cat coon and coyote with Blueticks.The ones I have definetly don't boo hoo.I got some dogs off of smokey river chief geronimo from Glynn Holmes in georgia.absolutely the best dogs i've owned in my life and i'm 79 years old.these dogs started trailing young and by 8-9 months old they were treeing good.I like the way they run to catch everytime they are cut loose.I have caught many coons on the ground with these dogs i got from glynn.They'll catch and kill a coyote too.
The so called early tree dogs just don't cut it for me.Give me a track and they will put a tree with the meat at the end of it.

John Longbow Littlejohn
Cherokee Proud

Posted by HOBO on 05-17-2012 05:07 PM:

My experience seems to be on the other side of the gang. My pups are usually pretty good about having the coon. The slick treeing is usually a man made deal cause everyone wants to see that lil pup up on the side of the tree blowing the top out.

The slick treeing comes when the pup starts taking a little colder track than it was when it first started treeing and when it has a hard time it might look up then you the hunter rush into the tree and pet that tree dog up telling it what a GREAT DOG it is before you ever look up the tree.

If you have a young dog that has the coon more times than not when he looks up just hunt the young dog and stop trying to impress your hunting buddy with how nice a tree dog you have.

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 05-17-2012 05:19 PM:

Re: Re: Do Pups that Tree Early Slick More?

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
[B]
The only thing I can tell you for sure is working a young dog who naturally shows the treeing trait is much easier than one that don't.
[B]

I will give this statement a big "AMEN"

As far as the question this thread originates from, I can't say. I've seen it go both ways.

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Posted by HIDEHUNTER21 on 05-17-2012 05:42 PM:

i tell yall boys the problem!! u got two idiots with two sh-t eaters that has a dog on the papers that was supose to be good 20 years ago. breed them 2 dogs that cant tree a coon and there u go!! there gonna put it on everybody with their tree dogs!!!

Posted by GA DAWG on 05-17-2012 05:57 PM:

I guess this un is doomed!!! Shes real young and barking at a coon. If you call 14 weeks young.

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Posted by goodtimekennel on 05-17-2012 07:00 PM:

YOU WOULD NOT HAVE LIKED THIS PUP HIS DOB WAS 11/10/10 HE TREED THIS COON BY HIMSELF ON 4/23/11

HERES A PIC OF HIM IN MY TRUCK AT 3 1/2 MO OLD CAUSE HE WATCHED THE OTHER DOGS LOAD SO HE KNEW HE WANTED IN THE TRUCK TO

OR THIS PLOTT SPLIT TREED AT 7 MO OLD

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Posted by old ben on 05-17-2012 08:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
I killed ten years messing with built in treedogs. I hope they are better now.Cause I finally quit with them. Treeing will come with age and experience to me but it is a hard trait to get rid of on stupid. For me, October is time to start because the gators slow down plus coon season is in plus coon families are still cutting acorns . Walk in a Live oak grove and your 4 month old pup goes to treeing right off the bat with a family of coons and it is easy to get impressed to the point of stupid. That same line or breeding or whatever , I have noticed treed alot on canal banks after a good bit of boo around trailing cause they didn't want to follow any more. I think that is when they start to learn how to slick. I think most dogs have to learn how to slick. Another good indication is to drive too close to where they are trailing and something sits down and goes to treeing when it sees your truck lights coming. Another indication is slipping in to catch a dog trailing on property he ain't supposed to be on and see how many set down and tree just before you sneak up on him. And finally a dog been trailing around for an hour and you start calling and immediately he sits down treeing. You know good and well he is just saying plain as Day , "Come and get me". " I have been bred not to ever come in". LOL

u make some good points there lyle

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Posted by RatDog on 05-17-2012 09:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by old ben
u make some good points there lyle

X2...

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Posted by mauser06 on 05-17-2012 09:20 PM:

You can teach most any ole mutt to trail something they want....

You cannot teach a dog to tree imo...that is an instinct..that is what seperates a tree hound from a beagle...sure someone will post a video of some other breed treeing...but that is not the norm...

I dont know if a dog that trees early is prone to slick treeing or not...i wont mess with a dog till it is 8 months or older depending how they act...

My buddy started his pup at 5-6 months...same litter...his slicks much more than mine i started at 8 months...

i think our training methods are different and he possibly created the minor problem..when his started treeing he pet and praised it at all trees it made.....i personally do not pet or praise a dog until i know it done good and got the coon...pup or not...

My dog has been under atleast as many and probably mannnnny more trees than my buddies has...and i can count on one hand how many slicks mine has made...3-4 had cross outs that i am willing to bet the coon came out of...1 true slick tree...a handful of dens but not many at all which makes me question other dogs ive hunted with...seen a good 100 coon above my youngun...

He is the most accurate dog ive hunted in my woods...especially if you take legitimate dens into account...i always thought we ran our coon alot and have alot of dens so we see alot of den trees...after seeing my youngun not den tree near as much as other dogs ive hunted i am stumped...dont know why he has the coon and not so many dens....

I let the dog tell me when they are ready to goto the woods...i look for aigns of maturity....and when they tree critters on the farm...usually happens around the same time...they then start getting tied up and ready for the woods...that is just me...

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Posted by T Felderman on 05-17-2012 10:25 PM:

That's why I kinda asked the question. Does treeing and the excitement stimulate a dogs brain to much at young age to the point it would rather tree than find the right tree?

I use to be all about dogs treeing at a young age. Now I would rather them have experience running tracks rather than just treeing on hotdogs or coon tails, coons in a cage you get my drift.

I dont believe dogs just have tracking ability in them. They have to learn how to run tracks and they can't learn by going 100 yards and bam tree.

Just thinking

Posted by mauser06 on 05-17-2012 10:55 PM:

Id say i tend to agree with your views...

Especially if treeing at a young age is encouraged and farther more if it is encouraged anytime they look up and bark...you see videos on here from time to time of guys making them tree drags, caged coon, etc...ive seen a video of a guy putting a treat or canned food up for a very young pup to tree.....what did that teach a dog??? Different guys trwin differently...thats great...that isnt for me...

Your right dogs dont instinctively know how to track...but their nose is amazing and it is something that is natural for them....as they track more they should become better....but to tree game and stay is an instinct..tracking is too...both are equally important imo...but a dog that will not tree is useless....a dog that struggles with tracking but trees coon can be worked....ive never had one that just wouldnt track...but ive seen them not tree....

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Posted by GA DAWG on 05-17-2012 10:58 PM:

Mauser does your pup have that big trackman mouth?

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