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Starting the dog with "too much tree"

A lot of times excessive slick treeing is blamed partially on too much tree bred in and other times it is blamed on trainer error. Likely it is a combination of both.

So in this day and age of dogs with plenty of tree how does a trainer adjust his strategy to get the best out of a dog that isn't afraid to get wooded? What is too harsh punishment for a young dog treeing slick? What is good encouragement but not too much for a dog that is starting to tree coon?

Lets have a good discussion and some strategy here!!

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The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Excellent question. Dogs have changed alot in the last 40 years but its still hard for me to punish a young dog under a tree.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

ive always said u cant beat the tree out of a treedog i start slowly saying no and jerking the leash and progress till i stop the unwanted behaviour

I think the real ? is does that dog know when hes slick? The discouragment can only be effective if the dog knows hes wrong(lieing),and is the problem to much tree or not enough nose?

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

There's no doubt that dogs are born with a greater desire to tree now than most dogs were 40 years ago and todays dogs are far more responsive to training, the number one problem I see that creates the tree monsters lies with the inability of the trainer to see faults that pups have. If you can't see the faults you won't correct them and they become bad habits.

Many times I have seen hunters blow a squaller for minutes after it was obivous that no coon was there, this encourages young dogs that have to much tree in them. Leave your squaller at home.

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think the real ? is does that dog know when hes slick? The discouragment can only be effective if the dog knows hes wrong(lieing),and is the problem to much tree or not enough nose?

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__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

think on this.
alot of dogs will tree bark treed on a tight fence,a hole,a river it cant or wont cross , anywhere it can not continue on the track. so why would people need to teach a dog to tree on a tree. it has no concept of a tree,to the dog it just can not continue farther on the track. so it tree barks there.
the only thing that should make a dog tree minded are coons it gets after climbing them.
no pup is born tree minded. they are born with the abilty to track and then tree bark for what ever they want bad enough and cant get to it.
if a dog can move a track you should not have to show it where the track went up the tree. tracking is bred into a dog , treeing bred in a dog is only what style of tree dog, how hard and such. its all about the tracking on how accurate a dog is.
but..many people thinking you have to "teach" a dog to tree will work them on the tree and work them on the tree and then wonder why it wants to tree as soon as it smells coon.
and the last thing i want is a pup that trees just because the other dog does.

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

quote:

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Originally posted by V. Cannon
Many times I have seen hunters blow a squaller for minutes after it was obivous that no coon was there, this encourages young dogs that have to much tree in them. Leave your squaller at home.

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__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
think on this.
alot of dogs will tree bark treed on a tight fence,a hole,a river it cant or wont cross , anywhere it can not continue on the track. so why would people need to teach a dog to tree on a tree. it has no concept of a tree,to the dog it just can not continue farther on the track. so it tree barks there.
the only thing that should make a dog tree minded are coons it gets after climbing them.
no pup is born tree minded. they are born with the abilty to track and then tree bark for what ever they want bad enough and cant get to it.
if a dog can move a track you should not have to show it where the track went up the tree. tracking is bred into a dog , treeing bred in a dog is only what style of tree dog, how hard and such. its all about the tracking on how accurate a dog is.
but..many people thinking you have to "teach" a dog to tree will work them on the tree and work them on the tree and then wonder why it wants to tree as soon as it smells coon.
and the last thing i want is a pup that trees just because the other dog does.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

my experience is if they miss much when starting they will die that way.... a pup should be the most accurate he will ever be when he starts.... he doesnt know what taking a chance is like a trained dog... just my 2 cents

JOHN, ITS YOUR CHOICE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT.
BUT NO PUP IS BORN WITH ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT A TREE IS. ONLY THE INSTINCT TO TREE BARK FOR WHAT EVER THEY WANT BAD ENOUGH. 5 WEEK OLD PUPS WILL LOCATE AND TREE BARK ON A BOWL OF FEED ON TOP OF A CAR. I GUESS THEY WAS BORN CAR MINDED.

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
my experience is if they miss much when starting they will die that way.... a pup should be the most accurate he will ever be when he starts.... he doesnt know what taking a chance is like a trained dog... just my 2 cents

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quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
JOHN, ITS YOUR CHOICE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT.
BUT NO PUP IS BORN WITH ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT A TREE IS. ONLY THE INSTINCT TO TREE BARK FOR WHAT EVER THEY WANT BAD ENOUGH. 5 WEEK OLD PUPS WILL LOCATE AND TREE BARK ON A BOWL OF FEED ON TOP OF A CAR. I GUESS THEY WAS BORN CAR MINDED.

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__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I would respectfully disagree that these dogs are not born treeminded. Same as a well bred pointer pup is born knowing how to point and even as a little pup will lock up on point on a butterfly. I have seen walker pups get treed without a clue what they are doing or why. (just bred inem)

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Treeing

Its been my experience that young dogs just starting out dont miss very often. Its when they get a little age is when they start to miss.

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Well maybe thats true.. and if it is the next logical assumption would be that when a dog slick trees he must believe the coon is there otherwise why would he tree? And if he believes he has his coon how is he going to distinguish between being whipped on a slick tree and one with a coon?

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

iam no expert but to much praise ,squalling hollowing for 20 mins before ever find out that its slick,,iam on the approach shine it quick find it or decide its not there move on down the road

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Country Boy Can Survive



Anderson County Coon Club
Lance White
865-919-7234

I've got a pup that has way to much tree power she will lock on the tree and try and chew it down. I have worked her with drags and she runs with her head up and winds the drag she will find the tree but she keeps her head up and doesn't work the track as I think she should.
My question is how can you get a pup to work the track harder and not be so TREE MINDED?
Also I'll take her out with my B&T and if she my B&T even smells a tree the pup will start treeing her but off
I am not gonna do anymore training till the fall maybe a little more growing and she'll start using her nose
Thanks for any tips

quote:

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Originally posted by cmuxlow
I've got a pup that has way to much tree power she will lock on the tree and try and chew it down. I have worked her with drags and she runs with her head up and winds the drag she will find the tree but she keeps her head up and doesn't work the track as I think she should.
My question is how can you get a pup to work the track harder and not be so TREE MINDED?
Also I'll take her out with my B&T and if she my B&T even smells a tree the pup will start treeing her but off
I am not gonna do anymore training till the fall maybe a little more growing and she'll start using her nose
Thanks for any tips

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quote:

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Originally posted by V. Cannon
X 2

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__________________
Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

You pretty much know what you got when dogs are trailing in the distance. You drive on up closer and a dog sits down when it sees your headlights. Dead givaway.My old buddy said dogs had to learn how to lie. But that was back then. I think all they need now is the tiniest bit of encouragement or way not enough butt cutting. No wonder fewer people start pups with dogs because that is where they learn that stuff from. If they hunt those kinds of dogs.

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Originally posted by toe cutter
coonhound pups are born to "tree bark" just like a bird dog to point. but it has nothing to do with a tree.
if they cut down all the trees and coon climbed telephone poles would they be born pole minded. no, they would still be born with a barking style called tree barking.
its got nothing to do with a tree. a pup has no concept of what a tree is.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
OK if it makes you feel better we wont call it TREE MINDED. We will just say they are bred with a desire to get HOOKED.

Car , Tree , Pole , dont matter. Some have an excessive desire to get HOOKED.

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quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
the track is the math, the tree is the answer,if they got the wrong answer they did not do the math right. if i send a dog off a tree it is to re do the math.
if a liiter 0f 5 week old pups can scent,wind,and locate on a cooked hot dog and tree bark when they can't get to it, all i had to do was get them to want a coon, same as the hot dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by V. Cannon
I will politely diagree. I have had pups that had never messed with( cars, telephone poles, wieners, brats or anthing else) that on the first trip ever in their life ( entire life) in the woods get treed and have a coon.

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