UKC Forums - Feeder Buckets???

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-- Feeder Buckets??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=4356)

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:00 PM:

Feeder Buckets???

Does anyone else find it ridiculos that a dog can be made a NT CH off of buckets? Every hunt I have been to some one comes off a cast and says they have been hunting buckets. I thought the point of these hunts was to see which dogs trails, and trees a coon the fastest. Buckets are not a good measure of this. Personally I feel buckets should be ban from competition hunts. We have 4 and 5 year old dogs makeing Nt CH off of buckets. If buckets are to be allowed, why not draw a pup cast like PKC does, and only allow them to hunt buckets. The titles are being cheapened by all of this in my opinion. I feel that if a dog can't get through the country get struck and tree a coon, without the help of buckets then you need to shoot it anyway. I live where coons are thin, and I know that sometimes buckets seem like a logical thing, but that is the whole point of competition, you never know what is going to happen.

Posted by Christy on 09-17-2003 05:05 PM:

Let me ask you a question...

Do you think that a "feeder bucket coon" smells any different from a "wild coon"?

All a feeder bucket does is give a better chance for the dogs to get put on a coon in a hunt.

The dog still has to do it's job.

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Posted by Samhain on 09-17-2003 05:07 PM:

Alot of the clubs holding the events start putting out buckets ahead of time to make sure coons are in the area.

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:09 PM:

Feeder bucket coons usually run right up a tree. As I said earlier, if a dog can't get through the country and find a coon by him self with NO help then it don't need to be in a hunt! That is the problem alot of times. People will bring dogs to a hunt that can't tree a coon with no help from a feeder and they mess up the good dogs.

Posted by Christy on 09-17-2003 05:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam Mims
Feeder bucket coons usually run right up a tree. As I said earlier, if a dog can't get through the country and find a coon by him self with NO help then it don't need to be in a hunt! That is the problem alot of times. People will bring dogs to a hunt that can't tree a coon with no help from a feeder and they mess up the good dogs.

1. Not all feeder coons run right up a tree. Ours dont anyways.

2. The dog dosent know that it's a feeder coon, so why should you care. It's not like there's someone with a flashlight calling the dogs saying "HERE IT IS, GET HIM BOY!!"

3. So, people that have dogs that can tree coons on feeders, dont have good dogs just because they dont go through yonder to tree a coon?

Here's another question.

Say you go to a hunt and someone takes you to feeders to hunt. The dogs strike and tree close to the feeder.

Would you want your dog on that coon, or woud you want your dog to pass up that coon and fine one that it has to go to the next county to tree that might just get you by the hour rule to get to that dog?

Think a bit before you answer.

Posted by Samhain on 09-17-2003 05:16 PM:

Adam

I have a young pup now that if i entered some events,could possibly win several but he has trouble running tracks near the water,that's why i haven't entered him,when/if he wins,i want people to say "****,that's a coondog".I tried out a nice bred dog earlier this year,she needed 20 points to make a ntch,she never treed a coon by herself in two nights of hunting but when turned loose with another dog,would tree.

Posted by B&TOK on 09-17-2003 05:22 PM:

I dont see it as being any different than hunting in a percimon patch the cornfields its just a food source I use my feeders mainly to get my coon healthy so they do have something to eat. I do hunt my young dogs on it. But I dont see anything wrong with it in a hunt niether.

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Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:24 PM:

Winning a hunt is not the measure of a good dog first of all. On your number 2: If dogs are hunted on feeders then they do figure out how the coons work around them. Why do you think so many dogs will hunt out for ten min and then come back. They get so used to hunting feeders that they can't go find a coon. 3: If a dog CAN"T go through yonder and tree a coon then it needs to be shot. In a hunt you try to decide which dogs trails and trees a coon the quickest. A coon that is not on a feeder runs alot different than one that is not, that is a fact. I don't hunt feeders, there a waste of time, and like I said coons are thin here. So when you go to these hunts and there are six and seven coons around three or four buckets then that is crazy. To answer your last question. I would rather not hunt feeders, but if that is what someone wants to do then I will do it. My dog better tree the coon no matter if it is a cheap one : )

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:27 PM:

Samhain

I applaud you for that. I would leave a dog at the house also if it weren't ready in my eyes. Alot of people will drag a dog to hunt just because it will run and tree with other dogs.

Posted by Christy on 09-17-2003 05:30 PM:

Ok. Adam...

We need to get together sometime, and go hunting. If you dont want to hunt feeders, that's fine. We'll hunt wild coons. Our dogs were trained on wild coons, and then itroduced to feeders.

We hunt both, that way, they get experience to tree coons quick and easy, plus they get experience to tree those long winded, ridge running, tree tapping coons that we all know an love!!

We just put out feeders so that you dont have to waste the whole entire hunt on one turn lose, and so that you will have a chance to get a better score.

Plus, they help during the week when you have to be at work at 6:00!

Posted by josh on 09-17-2003 05:32 PM:

quote:
1. Not all feeder coons run right up a tree. Ours dont anyways.

No, but MOST do.

quote:
2. The dog dosent know that it's a feeder coon, so why should you care. It's not like there's someone with a flashlight calling the dogs saying "HERE IT IS, GET HIM BOY!!"

Seems to me it's exactly like that........

quote:
3. So, people that have dogs that can tree coons on feeders, dont have good dogs just because they dont go through yonder to tree a coon?

Woulent you say a big part of coonhunting is casting the dogs so they can find a coon by themselves???

I have guided over feeders as a last resort, I dont like it and it is not at all fair to the other casts.....

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:35 PM:

I understand your point. I am saying in a HUNT they should not be allowed. You can not bait deer, why should be allowed to bait coon. That is ridiculos to me. I would love to hunt with you. People use the excuse about training a dog, or to get a "pop up coon". I find it ridiculos in a hunt that you turn it into a foot race. That makes it unfair for the other breeds (outside of walkers). Just kidding

Posted by Grubbs on 09-17-2003 05:39 PM:

I agree with Mr. Mims in every respect. I also agree with Christy, in that a coon does smell the same, whether on a feeder bucket or at ramdon in the woods, a baseball is the same if thrown as a curve or set upon a "tee". The "tee" ball is much easier to hit. It is always in the same place and a 4 yr. old can hit it easily with some practice. However, more experience and skill is needed to hit the "curve". That's why the "tee" is not allowed in advanced play, just for KIDS. In this kids league EVERY kid gets to hit from the "tee". Not just some of them. Get the analogy?????????????

Posted by HOBO on 09-17-2003 05:40 PM:

I guess I must need more dog power if MOST feeder bucket coon go up the feeder tree.I have hunted buckets for years and I can count on one hand the number of times I have treed on the tree the bucket was in or even that close to to.You guys that don't like hunting buckets need to draw out in thin coon with a guide that doesn't have any buckets out then come back and tell us what you think when you hunt 2 hours and never have a strike.Even if UKC said no buckets how could you inforce such a rule?

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 05:43 PM:

Hobo

Trust me buddy you have no idea about thin coons. Down here we have 10 pound coons that run for miles at a time. We don't have many coons at all. Going on a cast and not even striking is a little ridiculos yes, but that is part of the competition is the unknown part of it. The way you would enforce is the same way you enforce all the rules, the honor system. Sometimes it would fail but i can gaureentee you if it was a rule I would enforce it. To answer your other question, yes you do need more dog power if they take a while to tree feeder bucket coons

Posted by Christy on 09-17-2003 05:46 PM:

I have found...

Most foot races come from those dogs that take off running and dont come back.

County dogs, as I like to call them. Dogs that you can turn lose in one county, and pick them up a couple counties over.

Posted by Rip on 09-17-2003 05:52 PM:

HOBO is exactly right. Maybe up north feeder bucket coons go up the first tree, but I can tell you from experience that down here in real thin coon our bucket coon run twice as far and long as coon up north WITHOUT buckets.

Heck where I always hunted if you got a five or ten minute race off a bucket we called it a "pop up" coon. You hunt up north in thick coon with no buckets and you won't have a race last more than a minute or two. A five minute race up there is a real "runnin" coon.

Buckets being easy has more to do with area and coon population that the bucket itself. Heck a ten minute mountain coon race off a bucket is much harder to tree than an Ohio flat ground two minute race. Depends on the area.

If you don't like huntin buckets I suggest you come draw out with me as I don't use them. Of course you will be cryin on the way home cause we didn't score any plus points because the coons we struck were out of hearing when the dogs opened and nobody got to score it and we burned the whole hunt lookin for dogs or runnin one coon and gettin to the tree.

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Posted by Christy on 09-17-2003 05:55 PM:

Rip!

Sounds like you're in the same boat as us!

We used to guide alot taking people to "wild coons" yeah, well, everyone got tired of wasting their $15 for a bunch of -!!

Now we got some awesome feeders, and now everyone wants us to guide them!!

Do you know Jay Freeman IV from Fines Creek? If you do, ask him about Quincy Clayton's feeders.

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 06:00 PM:

As previously stated that is a part of competition hunting. The unknown of it makes it fun. I'm sure in tennessee coons are thin, I live in Georgia and there thin here. Your right about up north. Like I said though, most coons on buckets done run the same as a "wild coon". Alot of people will bring sorry dogs to these ukc hunts and hope to draw buckets. That way they have a chance.

Posted by Rip on 09-17-2003 06:08 PM:

Adam, compared to where I live Dalton Georgia is over run with coons LOL. I sent my old female down there when I came to med school and my little cousin and her were coon treein machines LOL. He lives there and told me how thin the coon were, after he got her he found out they weren't so thin. Truthfully they are pretty thin there, but up around Spencer Tn where I am from the coon are thin by Tennessee standards so it's pretty bad LOL. Old Sandy thought she was in heaven cause she went from treein one coon a night to gettin three or four. Of course that still ain't thick coon but it was a rite smart more than she was used to.

IF you score on one coon and have plus points and the other casts hunted close then you will win the hunt and have high scoring dog just for having plus points. Now if they went to other counties then all bets are off cause they have places about 45 minutes or so away that you can score three or so coon in a hunt, but just around there you are doing good to score one in two hours.

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Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 06:16 PM:

I live about 2 hours south of Dalton. Coons are alot more thin here. I was in a hunt Sat Night. I scored 175+ on one coon. It is the only coon we even treed that night. It is the only coon my dog even struck. I caught him at 1:15 in the morning still trying to find a track. We are lucky here to make one tree a night. The other cast come in with like 350+. They were hunting on buckets. Now tell me that is not a little ridiculos. The pup I was hunting is 11 mo old., the dog on the other cast was 4 or 5, and made NTCH that night. If that is not a little ridiculos then I don't know what is. I have no problem with buckets if one choses to hunt them. In a hunt though they should not be allowed to hunt em.

Posted by Grubbs on 09-17-2003 06:24 PM:

Mr. Mims is right again. In thin coon the odds are against you more if some are hunting buckets and you are NOT.

Posted by John D on 09-17-2003 06:34 PM:

I don't have an opinion one way or another, really. I've only hunted on known buckets one time in my life and we didn't score a plus point all night.

My thinking is that whether you like buckets or not, its really baiting that you are discussing. There is absolutely NO WAY a "no baiting" rule can be enforced. I know a hunter around here that has been known to go to spots and scatter dog food or ear corn a few days before a hunt to draw coons close to the road. Other than a few cobs, there might be no indication of what was done and even then you can't prove who did it.

Don't make an un-enforceable rule. Its a waste of time.

Keep yourself a dog that can tree pop-up coon and still tree coon in thin coon country, and and any other kind of coon, and you won't have to worry about it.

Posted by Adam Mims on 09-17-2003 06:43 PM:

John

You have a good point. With hunts going on places and points feeders in hunts are unfair. If someone is hunting feeders and another is not, then that is not a even playing ground. I understand that some places are gonna be better than others, but using feeders is really stacking the odds. My dog can tree either all night any night. That is not the point. I guess that is the only reason that a PKC event is better than a UKC hunt. If you hunt for a trophy it is not that big of a deal, people will drag anything out there, and cheat bend or make it as easy as possible. At least in PKC you hunt for money, more quality dogs are brought to these hunts. There is more at stake there. if someone is gonna pay 25 and 50 dollars to hunt there not gonna drag just anything out there.

Posted by HOBO on 09-17-2003 06:51 PM:

Adam what i mean about enforcing a no bucket rule is what about the guy that has the bucket out all week and takes it up the night before a hunt? You wouldn't know you were hunting buckets but actually you would be.I'll take a guide with a bucket any night over a guide without a bucket.

Dang and here I thought i had some dog power.Sure am glad you set me straight on that...

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