UKC Forums - Cold nosed track driving treeing walkers?

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-- Cold nosed track driving treeing walkers? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=428989)

Posted by brandonf on 05-25-2011 02:13 PM:

Cold nosed track driving treeing walkers?

Which dogs do yall think still produce COLD nosed track driving walkers? I have been hunting with alot of stuff out of the stud dogs today that just can not work a cold track... They look like a million bucks on a hot track but they wont work an old track. Most of them wont even go deep to find a hot track. they work an area close about 200 to 250 yards average and come back when they cant find a coon... Some people may say its from feeder buckets but these dogs are not being hunted on buckets... I think we are breeding the noses out of our dogs... What do yall think? Who do yall think still puts a cold nose on there pups?

Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 05-25-2011 02:48 PM:

Tracking...

Hey Brandon... I am seeing alot of what you are talking about as well. I guess I cheated a little by breaking out that old LIPPER semen , but my 10 month old direct son of LIPPER...Lipper's Dr. Law"DOC" is displaying some of things that we have been missing. He is not a finished dog yet but he does strike honest, he gives his mouth honestly according to the track and can work a bad track pretty well for a 10 month old. These old school characteristics are almost non exsistant in the dogs I have hunted with lately.The big loud beautiful bawl mouth is something else that has been missing. Hopefully, some young dogs from known track driving stock of dogs like DOC can reintroduce some of the enjoyment back into our sport and still be winners to contend with.

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Posted by brandonf on 05-25-2011 03:15 PM:

I have a female thats a grandpup to lipper and she also still has the cold nose in her... She can run tracks that most other dogs we turn out never smell... My friends say she runs tracks she shouldnt ever run because it is so old but i say i want one to take and old track if they cant wind a hot one in the area. She also still has that big bawl track mouth that we been missing...

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 05-25-2011 03:28 PM:

My dogs grandpa is lipper and he is a strong strong track dog

Posted by boonetreecoon on 05-25-2011 03:33 PM:

Seems like everything thats a track driving machine goes back to lipper. Alot of skuna river dogs are track drivers but go back to lipper. Now I have a dog off sunrise and swamp bred on the bottom that can flat move one cold or hot he smokes them and don't stand on his head

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 05-25-2011 03:50 PM:

There are some still out there. It is like the field of dreams, "if you build it they will come".

If you seek them, you still can find them.

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Posted by Jason Baldwin on 05-25-2011 04:00 PM:

I will do a comparison to country music. All these new country singers are like all these new stud dogs. Scream and yell,dress up like a freak, lots of womens ear rings, singing about ridiculous garbage and junk. On the other hand , houses Lipper is like George Straight. Nuff said

Posted by josh on 05-25-2011 04:26 PM:

When you claim one strain or stud has the market cornered on tracking ability....you loose all credability IMO.

Posted by Jim Hill on 05-25-2011 04:32 PM:

i have a nailor and sackett breed dog that can run some of the crappiest tracks ive ever seen and then other nights pull up a lay up coon, cant go wrong with sackett jr or nailor blood flowin threw them

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Posted by Jason Baldwin on 05-25-2011 04:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
When you claim one strain or stud has the market cornered on tracking ability....you loose all credability IMO.

They don't have the whole market, just 90% of it.

Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 05-25-2011 04:46 PM:

Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by josh
When you claim one strain or stud has the market cornered on tracking ability....you loose all credability IMO.

Josh ...I agree. I don't really think eveyone on hear is saying that the Lipper dogs have the market cornered, just that they are one of the stronger strains in that department. Why don't you put up some other lines that are track drivers. I know there are some ,I am just more familiar with the Lipper line that I have raised for over 30 years.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Posted by Diggerman on 05-25-2011 05:03 PM:

Re: Tracking...

quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
Hey Brandon... I am seeing alot of what you are talking about as well. I guess I cheated a little by breaking out that old LIPPER semen , but my 10 month old direct son of LIPPER...Lipper's Dr. Law"DOC" is displaying some of things that we have been missing. He is not a finished dog yet but he does strike honest, he gives his mouth honestly according to the track and can work a bad track pretty well for a 10 month old. These old school characteristics are almost non exsistant in the dogs I have hunted with lately.The big loud beautiful bawl mouth is something else that has been missing. Hopefully, some young dogs from known track driving stock of dogs like DOC can reintroduce some of the enjoyment back into our sport and still be winners to contend with.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

I see self promoting hasn't gone out of style, However competion hunts are the reason the cold nose was bred out of most strains of walkers and with out comp hunts who would ever heard of ol Lipper or his offspring?Most coon hunters don't have the patience to hunt a COLD nosed hound. If you really think you want a cold nosed walker you could start by checking out the big game Nance bred hounds.Just my opionion.

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Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 05-25-2011 05:09 PM:

Re: Re: Tracking...

quote:
Originally posted by Diggerman
I see self promoting hasn't gone out of style, However competion hunts are the reason the cold nose was bred out of most strains of walkers and with out comp hunts who would ever heard of ol Lipper or his offspring?Most coon hunters don't have the patience to hunt a COLD nosed hound. If you really think you want a cold nosed walker you could start by checking out the big game Nance bred hounds.Just my opionion.

There you go another good strain of track dogs... Big game hunters in the northwest have long been diehard Lipper dog enthusist. I agree that Mr. Lester Nance sure bred a strong line hounds that exsist today. Lipper dogs had more real pleasure coon hunters following his offspring a swearing by them than competition hunters. Big game hunters was one of Lipper's biggest followings. What do you mean self promoting..LOL. I just love my ol Lipper hounds. Fairly good post except for the self promoting thing.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Posted by HOBO on 05-25-2011 05:17 PM:

Just pick up any magazine and read the stud dog ads. THEY ALL HAVE COLD NOSES...

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Posted by brandonf on 05-25-2011 05:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Just pick up any magazine and read the stud dog ads. THEY ALL HAVE COLD NOSES...

I hope that was a joke! Pick up the magazine and i can guarantee most couldnt work an old track if there life depended on it.
I think thats part of the reason for all the slick treeing... LACK of nose

Posted by HOBO on 05-25-2011 05:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brandonf
I hope that was a joke! Pick up the magazine and i can guarantee most couldnt work an old track if there life depended on it.
I think thats part of the reason for all the slick treeing... LACK of nose

Yes it was meant as a joke. Everyone says their dog can run/move a cold track. The best way to find out is to hunt with the stud or as many of his pups as you can so you can see what he's throwing.

Posted by josh on 05-25-2011 06:03 PM:

Re: Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
Josh ...I agree. I don't really think eveyone on hear is saying that the Lipper dogs have the market cornered, just that they are one of the stronger strains in that department. Why don't you put up some other lines that are track drivers. I know there are some ,I am just more familiar with the Lipper line that I have raised for over 30 years.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Tom, The better track dogs I see show up here or there...I dont see much ryme or reason.
I agree Lipper breeding tends to throw a track oriented dog....But I just cant see how he can be the fix for problems today when he is largely respnsible for what we already have?

Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 05-25-2011 06:14 PM:

Re: Re: Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by josh
Tom, The better track dogs I see show up here or there...I dont see much ryme or reason.
I agree Lipper breeding tends to throw a track oriented dog....But I just cant see how he can be the fix for problems today when he is largely respnsible for what we already have?

I promise you that Lipper is not largely responsible for squeely tight mouthed yapping treehappy dogs that I am seeing these days. That is totally out of character for his offspring on all counts. These dogs have been bred up for competition to be totally independent and not that accurate and pitiful mouth quality. The are from some of these one hit wonder change every month super dogs that have come on since the internet craze. Everyone thinks they have a stud dog. Not Lipper dog style at all.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Posted by josh on 05-25-2011 06:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
I promise you that Lipper is not largely responsible for squeely tight mouthed yapping treehappy dogs that I am seeing these days. That is totally out of character for his offspring on all counts. These dogs have been bred up for competition to be totally independent and not that accurate and pitiful mouth quality. The are from some of these one hit wonder change every month super dogs that have come on since the internet craze. Everyone thinks they have a stud dog. Not Lipper dog style at all.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

lol, yea I agree with you there...

I guess I was just refering to track speed.

Posted by Hokieman on 05-25-2011 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Yes it was meant as a joke. Everyone says their dog can run/move a cold track. The best way to find out is to hunt with the stud or as many of his pups as you can so you can see what he's throwing.

LOL good one but wonder how many of them studs are actual coon dogs or feeder bucket dogs?

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Posted by ahinsch on 05-25-2011 08:53 PM:

Brandonf, i'd like to know what strains you have hunted that won't get past 200yds? Not trying to start anything, i'm just curious because I haven't seen it in any Walkers i've hunted with. I've seen some piss poor redbones that won't get past 150yds, but not walkers!

Posted by Gentry's English on 05-25-2011 08:54 PM:

I dont know alot about walker dogs but wernt the old finnely river dogs track dogs? I could be wrong but thats what I was told and I know that a lot of walker big game hunters do like the nance breeding.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 05-25-2011 08:55 PM:

To many generalizations about what lines produce what characteristics, The females have something to do with it tooooo. After reading some of these posts I have decided to cross a lipper dog on a rat female and i should get a dog that can tree deer.

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Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 05-25-2011 09:06 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by josh
lol, yea I agree with you there...

I guess I was just refering to track speed.

.......................................
Josh you are coming at me from all sides..LOL... Are refering to the same Lipper dogs that for years have accused of running off game because most dogs would squeel and yelp trying to keep up. So most guys thought it was off game when in actuality it was a coon being run like it should be run. Are you saying that Lipper dogs lack track speed ? Man that is a first..have you hunted with many Lipper dogs ?

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Posted by Whordel on 05-25-2011 09:25 PM:

I have hunted with a bunch of hounds directly out of Lipper.They were probably the most accurate hounds I have ever hunted with but almost every one of them would trash every once in a while.They were houndy hounds with good mouths and I loved listening to them work a track.My friends and people I know tried and tried to get those hounds out of Lipper to reproduce but they would never throw anything that would do nothing.No offence I would never own a grandpup out of Lipper but I would love to get my hands on one direct out of Lipper with my Old line of hounds in the mix.

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