UKC Forums - just wondering rules ?

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 02:40 AM:

just wondering rules ?

Cut 4 dogs down a path,only one strikes is struck by handler shuts up for a second and comes back to the cast with a coon in his mouth does he get minused his strike points?
Another? three dog cast one dog shuts out the other dogs wait 5 min and go in treed on a 10 ft. snag with a hole 5ft. up look in the hole and a coon is in there one handler studies it for a second, and takes a stick and pokes it and says it is dead should the dog still get 225+the cast would have never known if the guy wouldnt have poked it?

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Posted by hardtymes on 12-28-2010 02:52 AM:

Plus strike points,,,,,, circle tree points since the snag had a hole !!

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 12-28-2010 02:54 AM:

#1- the dog would receive plus strike points

#2- the points would be deleted because the coon was dead in the tree.

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 03:03 AM:

wouldnt have known it if the guy wouldnt have poked it though

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Posted by Todd Humphrey on 12-28-2010 03:07 AM:

Plus em both. Scratch the guy 4 messing with a den.

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Posted by jabrown on 12-28-2010 03:10 AM:

Re: just wondering rules ?

quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater Pete
Cut 4 dogs down a path,only one strikes is struck by handler shuts up for a second and comes back to the cast with a coon in his mouth does he get minused his strike points?
Another? three dog cast one dog shuts out the other dogs wait 5 min and go in treed on a 10 ft. snag with a hole 5ft. up look in the hole and a coon is in there one handler studies it for a second, and takes a stick and pokes it and says it is dead should the dog still get 225+the cast would have never known if the guy wouldnt have poked it?

Plus strike points only for caught coon.

As far as the second question I will quote from section 17 of the rulebook: "No scoring aids to be used other than light or mechanical squallers." I don't know if UKC would agree with us jamming sticks into every den tree we come to. Common sense should come into play when judging a cast, though, and every situation is different.

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 03:15 AM:

I told him that was considered molesting a den and he agreed.

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Posted by hardtymes on 12-28-2010 03:28 AM:

Was he the judge ? What did the judge say ??

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 04:26 AM:

he was already withdrew from the cast but if he would of had a dog Iam sure he would have got scratched.

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Posted by da.wells on 12-28-2010 07:32 AM:

That's what I call a cold nosed dog.lol

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Posted by Todd M. on 12-28-2010 02:21 PM:

1 Plus the strike only...
2 Plus it.... coon is seen, you have no rights besides looking and squalling.

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Posted by jabrown on 12-28-2010 02:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by da.wells
That's what I call a cold nosed dog.lol

Cold nosed and deadly accurate.

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 02:46 PM:

Yeah it was pretty funny cause there was acoon sitting up in a tree about 30 yards away.

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Posted by JiM on 12-28-2010 03:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Todd M.
1 Plus the strike only...
2 Plus it.... coon is seen, you have no rights besides looking and squalling.

That's purty close, I'm not real sure how UKC would rule on that one but I do know this much. First, you can't poke a stick in a den. It is a scratch offense and in Indiana (and prolly most other states also) it is a violation of game laws to poke a stick in a den tree.
Secondly, you cannot score on a dead coon, UKC has made that clear in the Advisor. So the question here is could they have determined that coon was dead without poking that stick? If the answer is no, then plus the coon. If the answer is yes, then score the tree with no consideration given to the dead coon.

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Posted by patches9452 on 12-28-2010 03:41 PM:

the national forest down here have 1 acre lots scattered out in remote areas that they put a 10 ft hogwire fence around... a dog cannot get thru it i have teed twice on these fences and seen a coon sitting up the first tree across the fence... that would really suck in a hunt im thinking cause the dog went as far as it could possibly go but missed the coon... glad i have only found 3 of these in 90,000 acres... i want turn loose close to them in a hunt now

Posted by Todd M. on 12-28-2010 03:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
That's purty close, I'm not real sure how UKC would rule on that one but I do know this much. First, you can't poke a stick in a den. It is a scratch offense and in Indiana (and prolly most other states also) it is a violation of game laws to poke a stick in a den tree.
Secondly, you cannot score on a dead coon, UKC has made that clear in the Advisor. So the question here is could they have determined that coon was dead without poking that stick? If the answer is no, then plus the coon. If the answer is yes, then score the tree with no consideration given to the dead coon.

Jim Good wording, but I was just going on the theroy of not knowing if the coon was dead or live. JMO

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Posted by JiM on 12-28-2010 03:49 PM:

What do they keep inside those 1 acre dogproof lots?

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 12-28-2010 05:30 PM:

I am thinking once the handler showed the coon to be dead it couldn't be plussed. That handler should be scratched and written up for handler misconduct. The den should be scored accordingly.
Perhaps an UKC official will answer.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 12-28-2010 05:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
I am thinking once the handler showed the coon to be dead it couldn't be plussed. That handler should be scratched and written up for handler misconduct. The den should be scored accordingly.
Perhaps an UKC official will answer.

what would be accordingly?
we know he didnt run a dead coon in there

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-28-2010 06:16 PM:

Who pronounced the coon dead? I think it was just a really sound sleeper. LOL
I would say on the second one the coon is dead and you can't score on it. So you deleat the points. The guy pokeing with the stick should had been stoped before he did it but once you know the coon is dead you can't score the tree.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 12-28-2010 06:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Who pronounced the coon dead? I think it was just a really sound sleeper. LOL
I would say on the second one the coon is dead and you can't score on it. So you deleat the points. The guy pokeing with the stick should had been stoped before he did it but once you know the coon is dead you can't score the tree.

i would thank the card would be trash

Posted by patches9452 on 12-28-2010 06:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
What do they keep inside those 1 acre dogproof lots?

they have them so they can tell how much browsing the deer and hogs have on the woods.... if will surprise you how much something will grow up if it has no grazing at all

Posted by on 12-28-2010 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
I am thinking once the handler showed the coon to be dead it couldn't be plussed. That handler should be scratched and written up for handler misconduct. The den should be scored accordingly.
Perhaps an UKC official will answer.

I think that if it was not the judge then it doesn't matter if the handler says its dead or not. The handler is now scratched and I doubt that the judge is going to confirm the handlers claim or he will risk being scratched also. If it was the judge he would be scratched and whether or not the coon is dead would be voted on if questioned. Since you cant prove it without molesting the den I doubt they would call it a dead coon.

Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 06:59 PM:

according to some of you guys this was probably scored wrong. This happened a long time ago as did the other ? I was the judge I seen the coon first it was laying on the bottom of the tree told the handler of the dog and he said good so we plussed it then a guy that withdrew out of the cast says hang on and runs a stick down the hole and says it is dead. I told him that by the rules that is molesting a den and we would have never known that if he would have not stuck the stick down there. Don't know if it was right but that is how we scored it just wondering if it was right or not. I am sure it is not a common thing but it could happen again.

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Posted by Blackwater Pete on 12-28-2010 07:03 PM:

The first ? I got minused on that one cause the guide/judge said that they shot the coon 2 days before the hunt. thanks for all the input on these ?'s I am bored and just reminisceing about the old days.

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