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Shy Dogs/Breeder Question

I would like to see what some of ya'lls opinions are on this situation....

Ok situation is you call an owner of a stud dog wanting to buy a pup off his stud. He tells you he has an 8 month old pup that is a nice prospect but has not been messed with at all as far as hunting goes. Maybe been out once or twice but doing nothing but acted like a pup. The dog comes 8 or 9 hours and you pick it up at a big hunt which is not a good environment to see a pups real personality but you trust the person you've got it from because of many references. You take the pup home and its scared of everything. You put it in a kennel next to one other dog and for a week it runs around tail between its legs, you try to mess with it but when you get it out it crawls under you scared of anything... You give it a week and a half to settle in and get used to the new place after which you show it a caged coon, pup not interested so you don't push her and get a hide. The pup is terrified of the drag but will trail it a little. You hunt her twice and she gets out 50 yards or so but not doing anything. Then one night you turn her out with an old dog and the old dog trees a coon the pup trees with it. The place is too thick to get to the tree so you shoot the coon out one shot one coon on the ground. It takes you two hours to catch the pup and beg it to come to you... Trying not to discourage it you try to get it in the woods and just let it be a pup a few nights later and it takes an hour to catch her. So now you have had her layed up for a few days and she is so scared she will not come out of the kennel, you try to let her run loose and she will not even leave the kennel, lock her out and she lays down and hides in the barn.... You talk to the man you bought her from and the only other pup he has reports of is doing the same thing and he's about ready to kill his...

What do you do/ expect in this situation if you bought this pup 3 weeks earlier?

What do you do if you're the breeder and get this report of a dog you sold so recently, knowing your pup is no different?

Me, I feel like shyness to this degree is something that should have been detected before the dog was sold.... What do ya'll say?

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

I'd call the seller and ask him to make it right. ,most would. If he don't, I'd bury the pup and eat my loss knowing better than to deal with person again. Simple as that.

if it my dog

first off never shoot a coon out to a pup without tying him at the tree. The dog will tree, i wouldn,t give up on him. I've had dogs be shy around the house, comes dark was a totally different dog. You've only had the dog for three weeks, keep working with him around the house, taking him on walks, train him to come to you. Good luck and be patient.

Re: if it my dog

quote:

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Originally posted by Coon Spotter
first off never shoot a coon out to a pup without tying him at the tree.

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

My Dad bought a cur once that was alot like that. He bought some of those beggin strips and everytime he was around that dog he would give it a piece of the beggin strips. She slowly got over the shyness. Some dogs you can get over it and some you can't.

If you have any kids you could try letting them play with this dog as often as they can sometimes a kid can get a dog over it as most kids don't care what the pup does they are gonna drag it where ever they want it to go.

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Dennis Robinson
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Thanks for the info and tips on getting them over it, good info!

But what I'm more interested in is how would you handle/feel about the whole situation as a breeder and how would you handle or feel about the situation as the person who bought the pup.

The only reason I bought a female is because I was wanting to make a nice female to breed my male to since it's so hard to find decent females to breed to your male unless you are in the stud dog business. And by her AND her littermate brother being the same way it shows me that it was more than likely genetic and that's NOT something I would want to breed and end up with 7 or 8 more like her...

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

quote:

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Originally posted by WFulbright
Thanks for the info and tips on getting them over it, good info!

But what I'm more interested in is how would you handle/feel about the whole situation as a breeder and how would you handle or feel about the situation as the person who bought the pup.

The only reason I bought a female is because I was wanting to make a nice female to breed my male to since it's so hard to find decent females to breed to your male unless you are in the stud dog business. And by her AND her littermate brother being the same way it shows me that it was more than likely genetic and that's NOT something I would want to breed and end up with 7 or 8 more like her...

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IF YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP THIS PUP

You need to forget taking it hunting for now, and work with it every day dont miss a day reputition is the key.

Work it in a controlled atmosphere and get it to trust you. chances are that the pup was never handled.

It does'nt take a lot of time just has to be everyday 10 to 20 minutes but the key is dont miss a day and be patient ,patient oh and by the way you cant be to patient.

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LARRY WALKER
west central indiana 812-327-8224

The shyness likely will be inherited. I have seen shy dogs in the kennels that made superior coon dogs. But, I would train it to sell or more likely. cull it now, I would call the breeder and let him know but it doesn't sound like you will get any money back.

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Dave Haugh

LAKELAND KENNELS
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YOu can't hold somebody to a contract that never existed ... and you can't blame anyone else but yourself when you buy sight unseen.


Lesson learned sounds like ... when a breeder or hunter is getting rid of a young prospect .. it's because it's prospects are very low ...


You could ask for a replacement ... but he'll send you the junkiest out of that litter too since he already has your money.

patience....... lotsa patience,,,,,, sometimes change will freak a young dog out,,,,,,, if i see any kind of potential ill give it all the time it needs......ive takin the dog to the woods and lead it all nite,,,,ties it to close to the tree... after its shot out ,let the other dogs do there thing , then introduce it the the young one,,,,, have had several come around this way.....nuther way is get some young kid who loves dog drag it around ever day,,,,,

again, thanks for the info on helping her... but I'm just wanting opinions on what you think of it as a buyer or a seller, is it right what would you expect from the buyer/seller in this situation...

I'm a coon hunter not a puppy therapist I will not beg one to come to me and will not baby one, there is no reason for a 8 month old pup to be scared of its shadow.

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

You have already gotten several answers, pretty much same response from several people. What more are you looking for? Buying sight unseen is never a good idea, most of us on here have already learned the hard way.

shyness is heriditery or from just not being fooled with i think. they are like kids , you cant just sit them in a pen and expect them to be good actin and mannered ya got to fool arouind with them.

i have had 2 shy pups, both made coondogs, just took a little patience,,, seemed to take it a little more serious when they started than a normal pup,,, i liked that about them,,, thing i hated,, you always worried about whippin on them

most them that sit in a pen till 11 or 12 months old are pretty well brain dead , not all the time,,, but i definately believe it cuts their full potential in half or killed all of it

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blue Style
You have already gotten several answers, pretty much same response from several people. What more are you looking for?

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

quote:

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Originally posted by WFulbright
I'm looking for different peoples opinions... not techniques on fixing it...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blue Style
You have gotten several opinions on that, basically buying unseen and getting burned is lesson learned...its sad that it is that way, but unethical breeders/sellers are getting more and more commmon place...

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

As far as a buyer /Seller deal, I would say it would be a 50/50 split. I bought a 2 year old walker off a dog jocky and i trialed him that night and was not realy for or against him .The guy told me i could take him on a 2 week trial. I had him around the house for a few days to get used to him and them i took him up to our hunting camp for a week of hunting and i roaded him and he was about 70% accurate. So when i got home i sent the guy a check on my word figuring i had a descent dog to start with and when i started putting him in smaller woods localy he was about 50% accurate and i could not stand it so i ended up finding him a home with a boy that lived on a few big farms that wanted a coon dog but could not afford to buy one.I told him about his faults and the last time i heard the boy was tickled to death with his Big old breed to gills coon dog.We are all adults and its easy for someone to point out are faults from hindsite but only you can make that decision.Maybe you should look for an older retired NT CH or something to buy and breed to instead of buying a young dog and not knowing what you might end up with .And never ever buy another that you don't hunt with or have referances on.It cost me about $700 plus 9 months of feed and vet bills to figure this out.And i do not blame the Dog jocky for any of this

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Curt Kerns
Nite CH Lone Pine Banshee
(GRNITECH'PR'CHEAT RIVER BIG HORN CRUISE X NITECH'PR'LONE PINE SADIE)

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Chester/Berks Coon Hunters

Morgantown,Pa 484 467 6061(cell)

Velocity, thanks...

As far as an older dog goes... I ain't that into it. I don't want a dog already made, that is the part I enjoy. I have a 2 1/2 y/o male that I've pretty much made in the past year when he came here he wasn't doing a whole lot now he's a win away from ntch. I've always known about trying before you buy. But with a 8 month old pup that's not supposed to be doing anything that's not something you necissarily think about... its not much more than buying a 6 week old pup...

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Wil Fulbright
864-934-4726
--GrNiteCh Smokin Loud Mouth Duke
--NiteCh Duke's Black Beauty "T" co-owner Wyatt Fulbright

I see what your saying and then my next step would be find a home for your shy dog or ???? you decide to do and with all these pups out there i would do a little research and find an 8 week old pup that would be about ready to start next hunting season and then you have plenty of time to train/bond with your pup and since you have a descent hunting dog already your set to try another adventure....Good Luck

__________________
Curt Kerns
Nite CH Lone Pine Banshee
(GRNITECH'PR'CHEAT RIVER BIG HORN CRUISE X NITECH'PR'LONE PINE SADIE)

PR Thunder Struck Moon Shine
(GRCH GRNITECH'PR' ROCK RIVER THUNDER X NITECH BEAVER RUN HOLLY)

Wicked one Little Camo Petey
(Wicks Camo Comet X Wick's Camo Catch)

Chester/Berks Coon Hunters

Morgantown,Pa 484 467 6061(cell)

some it's inherited others become shy because they were never socialized just left in a kenell .most will overcome there shyness with a little effort on the owners part. i have one that i bhought because something told me to this was a very well bred pup that was never fooled with and was 22 months old i let my grand children play with him and started training him to hunt at almost 2 years old showed him a caged coon and he went beserk trying to get to it i let him go nuts over it for almost an hour then tied him let the coon go and let him watch it leave let him loose 10 minutes later and he tracked and treed it like he knew what he was doing this dog never backed up was better each time i hunted him he gained confidence in himself and now what a hound recalls when you call him walks nice when leashed and got real loud when tracking he is here for life thats how much he came on

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When you buy something without trying it first you have no one to blame but yourself if its a cull.

this litter was not handled as a young pup you have to mess with pups every day to make them how you like

I have never in my life seen a pup (and very few old dogs either) that didn't require some form of disapline for correction at times. How do you disapline a shy dog? You can't and that generally makes them untrainable. Other than someone who enjoys trying to fix things that are generally considered unfixable, I can't thnk of a reason to bother. I would just move on to the next one. But I say that fully admitting that I never get attached to a pup. I don't even name them anymore till they make it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Stokes08
this litter was not handled as a young pup you have to mess with pups every day to make them how you like

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