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Tree points?

4 dog cast A.B.C. are struck in that order. A.B.C. are declared treed and the 5 is running, Now D. is declared struck for 25 . Walking into tree it becomes evident that dogs are split and D is declared treed split. C. and B. are on one tree and A. and D. on the other. Both coon are seen. How is Dog D. scored on this coon?

75???

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

75+

75+ for second tree, line through strike because other dogs were treed before D struck in.

Just curious who D declared split treed by the handler or judge?

Handler. Judge scored dog D. zero he said both trees were closed?

if dog D was treed split i would think he takes 125- since he wasnt by himself......

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If the handler declared split he takes 125- and nothing on strike cause he was shut out.

My revised answer is 125-

Trees were only about 50 feet apart so no way to tell if A. pulled to D. or if dogs were split before D. treed.

If it wasn't determined that A moved then D gets the 125- with deleted strike points.

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Re: Tree points?

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
4 dog cast A.B.C. are struck in that order. A.B.C. are declared treed and the 5 is running, Now D. is declared struck for 25 . Walking into tree it becomes evident that dogs are split and D is declared treed split. C. and B. are on one tree and A. and D. on the other. Both coon are seen. How is Dog D. scored on this coon?

---

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

Original tree was closed, but we couldnt tell which was the original tree. A.B. and C. had run the 5 when D. was treed split.

Was it determined that A moved or was that the original tree because that has to be determined before you can determine what to do with D.

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

Couldnt tell which was the original tree, they were close. We were probably only 25 yards out on our way to the tree when it became evident that they were split and then Ds handler declared split tree.

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Couldnt tell which was the original tree, they were close. We were probably only 25 yards out on our way to the tree when it became evident that they were split and then Ds handler declared split tree.

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Dog D gets 100+, and Dog A gets it's strike points + and 125+ on the tree. Dog B would get 125+ on tree and Dog C would get 75+ on tree, with both strikes being plused as well.

Dog A - 225+
Dog B - 200+
Dog C - 150+
Dog D - 100+

If you can't tell they were split how can you declare it until you can tell.

How can you close two trees at once. That Judge was an IDIOT. If my dog split treed 500 yards or 5 feet away they are split as long as there is no way for the coon to get from one tree to the next. Any closer than 5 feet and you really can't say that it is a seperate tree. Guys get wound up when you minus them on tree when they are 5 or 6 feet from the rest of the dogs, it aint purtty LOL.

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ST_CRK_KENNELS

Sorry, but your wrong. I wouldnt be calling the judge an idiot.

Wrong about the points or not, the judge is still an idiot.

How do you close two trees at the same time.

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NOT THE BENCH!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS
How do you close two trees at the same time.

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does'nt matter if two trees closed at once the FIVE was up. Rule states if you tree your dog after the five is up he better have his OWN tree or he is minused 125. In this case he did not have his own tree so he he gets minused.

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The mistake was made by handler of dog D. He gets the big 125- on tree and you will delete his 25 strike points. Dog D should have never been split treed unless the handler was certain he was by himself. The tree or in this case both trees were closed after the five minutes were up. Handler D made the mistake of split treeing his dog and took the minus.

Dog A may have moved but it couldn't be determined so you score it as you see it.

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The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Since the after five rule has come into effect I have had to minus several people for it. They then say I didn't know that. Dog D should get 125- and strike points deleted. The fact that the dogs were split is no big deal. The fact that handler of dog D made the mistake of treeing his dog was the major factor to his 125-. If he would not have treed his dog and went in and seen the coon then he ends up in alot better position. Dog D would have gotten nothing. Rule 4d states that no dog can be treed on a closed tree but if a dog comes into that tree they will get minus strike and nothing on tree if coon is seen. Since dog D was struck after dogs A,B,and C were treed and he ended up on a tree that was already closed his strike must be deleted and a coon was seen so he gets nothing. Handler of dog D should have waited, got to the trees and seen what was going on. If his dog would have been split by itself then tree him and hope you see a coon. He then would have gotten 150+ instead of 125- or he could have not said anything and still had 0. People want to blame a judge and in fact they don't even know the rules that they are hunting by.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

As is usually the case when a question is asked if 12 people weigh in there will be 10 different answers. After some years away from the hunts I hesitate to question a judge on a call simply to avoid confrontation and because im out there for a good time and to hopefully see some good dog work. Seems to me we would all benefit if U.K.C. would provide a means for us to have these questions answered correctly. Its easy to say KNOW THE RULES but in reality situations arise in the field that leave us all scratching our heads. If U.K.C. would maybe provide a moderator to weigh in once a week or so and answer some questions i believe it would raise the level of knowledge for us all. I realize that many times the average person could dig the answer up through advisor articles, but a simple heres your answer format would benefit all involved. J.M.O.

John, I hate it that you believe questioning a call is akin to causing a confrontation. This is really a poor attitude for anyone to have. Questioning a call should never be considered to be a disrespect of the judge and there is no reason it should ever lead to confrontation.
Anyone who is unwilling to question a call because they are afraid of causing a confrontation is beat before they start.

true

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
John, I hate it that you believe questioning a call is akin to causing a confrontation. This is really a poor attitude for anyone to have. Questioning a call should never be considered to be a disrespect of the judge and there is no reason it should ever lead to confrontation.
Anyone who is unwilling to question a call because they are afraid of causing a confrontation is beat before they start.

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There is nothing wrong with letting the rest of the cast including the judge know your opinion. The wrong part is how you do it. I have seen cast members question a call and do it in a very nice way and we continued the cast and had a good hunt. I have also been on the other end where one guy didn't want to lose and pitched a temper tantrum and made the rest of the night a disaster. A simple knowing of basic rules is usually all it takes to avoid alot of questions. Another thing a cast member needs to think about is this. I am a MOH, and if you are out voted in the woods three to one, they are more than likely not going to change their story before they get back to the clubhouse. It is hard to set and listen to a question and decide against someone who really feels they were done wrong. After the ruling is made, now I am one of the bad guys. We have all been in these situations before, so take your lumps and learn by them.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

There is no way anyone is making the rest of the night a disaster. There are rules against making the rest of the night a disaster. Anyone who can't accept "vote it, question it on the card, shutup" is done right there. That is the law in UKC.