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competition hunt question

If I'm hunting a dog in a hunt does he have to stay on the tree? like with his feet on the tree are stand and the trunk of the tree? What if he is milling around say 10 are 15 feet from the tree. He is barking just not on the wood. After I get to the tree he will get on the wood. Would I get minused? Thanks

if he is milling around and barking you will get minused but it doesnt have to have his feet on the tree either. ask the cast i was on a couple weeks ago and they will tell you how much hell i will raise when they tried to minus me for a dog sitting on his butt and treeing

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This dog will sit like that to but he will stand back about 2 -3 feet away from the tree an bark. But ever time I get to the tree he is running around it treeing. Like I said 10-15 feet back. after you get there he'll come in and get close. Thanks

hey

he can come back off the tree as long as he is not out of the aprine of the tree and his nose is not on the ground u should not be minused, if he comes off and just barks but goes back to the tree you will be fine just tell the guys before u turn loose that he may greet u but if he comes back off the tree and his nose hits the ground u will be minused

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if the dog is clearly circling the tree barking treed you should not get minused. if he is setting 5 steps back on his but looking strait up at the tree barking he should not be minused. there isn't one thing in the rules that states how they have to tree, they just have to tree and stay there. it doesn't take rocket science to know if a dog is treeing or not, sounds like someone was just putting the screws to ya. if you thing your dog is treeing fine ask to vote by the cast, if you don't like what you get then ? the score card and take it to the moh. if your dog is just milling around and not treeing you should be minused!!! jmo

Need clarification on this one!!! Gets asked all the time.

It is my understanding that this would be a judgement call and should be voted on by the cast if the "tree style" comes into question. NOSE ON THE GROUND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A MINUS! Nowhere in the rule book does it say that. It was ruled this way when M.O.H. was questioned at my last hunt. The question asked should be: Was the dog getting on another arack, or was it on the same cooon, at the tree? This is the result of screwy handlers. People know when a hound is treeing or not but they will normally do whatever it takes to get the other guy minused and them plussed!!! Just be honest and hope that the other cast members will be as well. If not, more than one can play the game. Have fun!

Best way to take care of any minuses for milling is to have a dog that gets by itself with a coon. No questions if he's there under a coon by himself everytime...

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Re: Need clarification on this one!!! Gets asked all the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DSKennels
It is my understanding that this would be a judgement call and should be voted on by the cast if the "tree style" comes into question. NOSE ON THE GROUND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A MINUS! Nowhere in the rule book does it say that. It was ruled this way when M.O.H. was questioned at my last hunt. The question asked should be: Was the dog getting on another arack, or was it on the same cooon, at the tree? This is the result of screwy handlers. People know when a hound is treeing or not but they will normally do whatever it takes to get the other guy minused and them plussed!!! Just be honest and hope that the other cast members will be as well. If not, more than one can play the game. Have fun!

---

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it would just be a judges call i woulld minuse u if it was not under the canopy of the tree or if he starts trailing at the tree but honestly it just up to the judge

the situation i was talking about my dog was the only dog there and the other dogs in the cast were slick. he was sitting on his butt looking up the tree and we saw the coon when they said he wasnt on the tree like he should be and wanted to minus me i went off. i dont care to take my minus if a dog needs it but im not gonna let them put the screws to me either

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/there is nothing at all in the rules anywhere that says anything about a tree "canopy"/
There is a gray area in the rules about a dog off the tree......
this is the rule:
"Dog should not be minused tree points if he comes back a short distance to meet handler if dog goes back in and trees satisfactorily. "
the gray part is : a short distance,,,, my definition may be different from another hunter.

this rule is in rule 17, General Information

I have no problem with a dog

That (a) meets it's handler a short distance wagging its tail being pettish if it goes back in & trees like it should, but if they put their nose to the ground & start tracking there minused. I'm not hard to get along with either &will give you a fair shake. I'll show you your coon gladly & if it beats me I'm just beat & expect the same from everyone else, but some look for any reason to minus as they're trying to eliminate the competition & take the apron of the tree thing which isn't in the rules way to far.Anyone whose hunted much also knows if a dog is showing tree satisfactorily or not & they also know if a dog is tracking or not. I've actually had arguements when minusing a dog that came 300ft down hollow off tree &IMO this is to far & they should get minused.

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DS Kennels: It is my understanding that this would be a judgement call and should be voted on by the cast..............

Yes it is a judgement call but you are wrong in saying it should be voted on by the cast. According to the rules, this is a decision that is made by the judge and ONLY the judge. Now if any cast member disagrees with the judges decision, that cast member can ask for a cast vote on the decision. A majority would overrule the judge. If you don't have a majority to overrule the judge you could then ask for a question to be placed on the card.
Failure to follow these procedures that are clearly outlined in rule 18(b) has been the cause of many wrong calls staying on the card and the wrong dog winning. It makes no difference how right you are if you fail to follow the guidelines laidout in 18(b).

HrdStrknKennels: ask the cast i was on a couple weeks ago and they will tell you how much hell i will raise when they tried to minus me...............

That hell raising, no matter how right you are, would do exactly nothing but get you scratched on the spot on any cast with a decent judge. If the judge is wrong and you are right, you have options that will make it right. Even if the cast goes against you, you still have options within the rules to make it right. The instant you start your hellraising, how right you are becomes a total non-issue. You are just gone and you won't beat that one.

Anyone with common sense knows that when a dog meets you off the tree may put his nose on the ground headed back to the tree because they need to make sure they get back on the right tree. As long as the dog goes back and shows tree satisfactorily then there should be no problem. Anyone who minuses a dog just for putting their nose on the ground should never be allowed to hold the scorecard.

They are SCENTHOUNDS and that should be remembered at all times. They smell their way to things.

SIGHTHOUNDS use their eyes to do their treeing.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

Jim

You as usual are exactly right & some poeple don't understand what raising cain about something or trying to intimidate someone will get them. Personally I don't get intimidated. All they have to do is ??? a call I made & go on & hunt & if I'm wrong or for some reason a ruling gets overturned so be it, but if they try to intimidate me or raise cain beyond reason & we can't settle it like grownups they're gone to the truck period. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it & will gladly say so , but have never been over ruled to date. If it's a dog I'm hunting I'll minus it the same as I will someone elses dog & wont hesitate to do it. I have seen the intimidation thing tried a time or two & when they saw it didn't work they chilled out after I told them if they didn't calm down they were scratched. Funny how that works most of the time lol.

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Redbones4me

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about milling around & not going back to tree & treeing satisfactorily. I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I looked back & saw how my comment sounded, but it wasn't meant to sound like that & has been edited to be the way I meant it to sound lol. Hardstrokinkennels if your dog done exactly as you say( Sitting back a few feet off tree treeing & showing tree satisfactorly) he definitley shouldn't have been minused,but if he had been sitting there treeing up in the air like he couldn't find the tree winding & just barking up in the air then yes he should have been. There's definitley nothing that defines tree style in the rules that says they have to have their feet on tree & standing on it treeing.

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when you say mlling around the tree what do you mean ?

Ga Dawg and anyone else who thought so: I was not referring to a dog milling around the tree but was referring to a dog just hitting the ground once or twice and putting his head right back up. If he is milling, I agree he should be minused.

Jim: lol...I'm not stupid I realize the judge gets first say but, if the handler doesn't agree it ultimately goes to a cast vote. Haha

dog tree in competiton

Wrangler as a rule a dog is treeing wood be to either sit at the base of tree with his head up wether he is touching or not touching the tre doesn't matter as long as he is treeing. It is how ever the handlers responsability to inform the judge on the style of the way or dog trees what i mean is tell the judge before each hunt that your dog sits at the base of three and trees with his head up and thats the way his treees. anyone in ther right mind will not can't minus a dog for the way it trees. night hunts are judged on hunting ability and doing it better than another dog. thier not judged on style of the dog. some guys like a belle rubbing dog some guys like a sit at the base of the type of dog as long as thier at the tree with thier head up in the air treeing.

J.R.

their head doesnt have to be up in the air. They just have to be at the tree. they could be looking at the top of the tree or at the roots, who cares

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HrdStrknKennels
the situation i was talking about my dog was the only dog there and the other dogs in the cast were slick. he was sitting on his butt looking up the tree and we saw the coon when they said he wasnt on the tree like he should be and wanted to minus me i went off. i dont care to take my minus if a dog needs it but im not gonna let them put the screws to me either

---

you should have no problem with him treeing like that as long as he is under the shadow of the tree ive seen alot of dogs tree like that depends on who is judgeing the cast in other words just hunt the dog and dont worry about it !!

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I DONT CARE IF A DOG IS STANDING ON ITS HEAD WITH ALL 4 FEET STICKING UP IN THE AIR IF HE'S TREED HE'S TREED !! IF HE'S SITTIN BACK 10 OR 15 FEET ON HIS BUT TREED WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANY BODY MINUS THIS DOG ?? (NEVER MIND I KNOW THE ANSURE)

ANY TIME YOUR DOG HAS A PECULIUR TREE STYLE TELL THE JUDGE & CAST BEFORE YOU CAST DOGS

there is no such thing as shadow or umbrella of a tree..... there either treed or not... theres belly up to the tree..some tree right off the tree lookin up..... some sit on there butt lookin up treed.. some are goin round in circles treeing.... ive seen them up to 8 feet back treed......ive even seen one tree with is nose on the base of a tree....... like some have said... tell your dogs tree style up front and there should be no problems... as for coming back to meet you and go back..i have no probs one coming back 15 yards or so.....the key is the dog go back to the tree ahead of you.....not follow you back like ive seen and the handlers not want to take there minus..... One Cast back in the early 90's i was judging....i asked if any one had any thing they wanted to tell me bout there dogs.... one young man spoke up and said my dog will meet me off the tree but go back..... sure enuff he got second tree.....we head to tree and they dog did meet us...50 to 75 yards away and followed the handler back to the tree..... he then leashed him like the rest....i minused him for not goin back to the tree and tree... i explained the dog muct go back on his own. and not meet him that far of the tree. he questioned the call..... so i marked it..... this happend on all 4 trees that nite. each time a question....i dint argue i just put the question and went on.....so we go back to the club and the MOH hears the question.... and polls the cast... this young man thought he had the cast won all the way back.... i just kept my kewl noing he had not a clue . he was also minused for callin the wrong dog(2nd time)..... after the MOH ruled on all 4 question. ive never seen some one so dejected..... the MOH gave him a rule book told him to read it over several times and to call him later in the week and he wood sit down with him and help him learn the rules....i saw that young man a cupple years later and he apologized for the problems he caused..... thats what it all about a MOH or person willin to help some one understand the rules and a young person eager to learn them......

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