UKC Forums - Special Females Of The Treeing Walker Breed

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-12-2008 04:14 AM:

Special Females Of The Treeing Walker Breed

I have added a new section to our Foundation Of The Breed Forum. It is called Special Females Of The Breed. In it we are posting pictures and information and ads on females who have contributed to betterment of the breed.

Two obvious choices for this section is House's Queen and Bixler's Supreme Sally. We have a list of females we feel have helped the Treeing Walker Breed but would like input from others.

Which Walker Female do you think has had the single biggest good impact on the Walker Breed? I am going to put a poll here and list 10 females. The final cut is a hard decision to make.

http://finleyriverchief.forumotion....-the-breed-f55/

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Posted by joecarpenter on 12-12-2008 02:34 PM:

house's queen

Posted by Larry Atherton on 12-12-2008 03:33 PM:

Hmmm ... biggest influence? Are you asking in general? See one female may have a bigger influence just due to one offspring.

How about a female's influence that had many top offspring? I would like to see the females that had more than 1 lucky roll of the genetic dice.

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Posted by historydogsite on 12-12-2008 04:56 PM:

I have a pic of White River Rowdy,,she was bred to 1949 ACHA World Champion White River Boone 2 days before his death. Boone only bred 2 females

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-12-2008 08:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Hmmm ... biggest influence? Are you asking in general? See one female may have a bigger influence just due to one offspring.

How about a female's influence that had many top offspring? I would like to see the females that had more than 1 lucky roll of the genetic dice.

"Which Walker Female had the single biggest good impact on the walker breed."

Her impact could be a few pups or a lot of pups. To me it would be hard NOT to put House's Queen down on this. But arguements could be made for each listed. Some more then others.

Let me give an example Johnson's Kansas Rose. Her most famous offspring is Kaw River Chief. If it wasn't for her there wouldn't be a Kaw River Chief. If no Chief then no House's Tom Tom, (Look at Rose's picture on our site and you will see her influence on Tom Tom). If no Tom Tom then no House's Clint, if no Clint then no House's Lipper.

I agree with your Hmmm. But some of these females may have had a lot of good hounds but not a lot of "famous" hounds.

In his day Finley River Banjo was one of the most popular studs going and one of the reasons was the pups he produced out of Kalal's Minnesota Cookie. There were many Dual Grands and Duals from this cross.

White River Rowdy at one time was in a great percentage of the hounds pedigree you would look at and still would be if the pedigrees went back far enough..

You wouldn't have a Finley River Chief without Bixler's Supreme Sally. If you have no Chief you have no Spring Creek Rock or Finley River Dan.

I know it may be a hard question to answer, it was hard cutting it down to 10 when another 5 - 10 could have been put on the list.

Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-12-2008 08:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by historydogsite
I have a pic of White River Rowdy,,she was bred to 1949 ACHA World Champion White River Boone 2 days before his death. Boone only bred 2 females

This is something I don't know if people realize how much Boone showed up in Pedigrees years ago and how few pups he had a chance to produce. I remember seeing many many pedigrees with an offspring from White River Boone and White River Rowdy in the pedigree somewhere.

Posted by Tiffany Ealy on 12-12-2008 08:56 PM:

I know that these females are not on your list but, they are real good. GRNTCH PR Slippery Rock Penny, NTCH PR Slippery Rock Dixie, GRNTCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Queen, GRNTCH GRCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Anna, and GRNTCH PR Nye's Sensational Sassy. In my Next Generation News from February you can read about them

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 12-12-2008 09:41 PM:

Actually, I think it was the House's Tom Tom litter that was one of the first that the majority of the liiter made top dogs that produced other top dogs, but I would have to check to make sure.

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Posted by John Wittenborn on 12-12-2008 09:47 PM:

We wouldn't of had,

Banjo II, without Ritchies Rockwell Dawn. We wouldn't of had Banjo Jr. (who produced Crows Boss) without Ritchies Rockwell Jennie. We wouldn't of had Hershbergers Kansas Babe without Hershsbergers Texas babe.

There were alot of good producing females back when.

But most of all, we wouldn't of had Johnsons Banjo ( who really put the tree power in the Walker Breed) without Millers Judy.

There are others that should be mentioned, but I'll leave them for other people to talk about.

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Posted by jay brademeyer on 12-13-2008 02:06 AM:

TINSLEY'S KANSAS TESS AND OLD STYLISH QUEEN ....WITH OUT THESE TWO THE WALKER BREED AS WE KNOW IT WOULD HAVE A HUGE CHUNK MISSING

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-13-2008 03:19 AM:

Re: We wouldn't of had,

quote:
Originally posted by John Wittenborn
Banjo II, without Ritchies Rockwell Dawn. We wouldn't of had Banjo Jr. (who produced Crows Boss) without Ritchies Rockwell Jennie. We wouldn't of had Hershbergers Kansas Babe without Hershsbergers Texas babe.

There were alot of good producing females back when.

But most of all, we wouldn't of had Johnsons Banjo ( who really put the tree power in the Walker Breed) without Millers Judy.

There are others that should be mentioned, but I'll leave them for other people to talk about.

John,

I have heard more then once that Johnson's Banjo and Nelson's Butch has the same mother. I think Mr. Brock from Missouri was going to write an article about it at one time. I don't know if he ever did. If the same female did whelp these two dogs that is something to think about.

Posted by John Wittenborn on 12-13-2008 06:08 AM:

Don,

I may be wrong, but I think Nelson's Butch was out of two grade dogs. The sire was named Blue & the dam was named Lou. But back then, who knows????????????

Looking back over an old set of papers that I have, it shows that 4 generations back from Spring Creek Rock, was Nelsons Butch C756-234 who was bred to Nelsons Smoky C756- 233. Going by their Reg. numbers, it looks like they could have been littermates.

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-13-2008 06:22 AM:

John,

Nelson's Butch was a single registered dog as was Johnson's Banjo. I know their mothers names are different but considering both Butch and Banjo were single registered that isn't a suprise.

I know Mr. Brock stated they were half brothers, being out of the same female in one of his articles. Before that I had heard the same thing a number of times.

Is this one of those urban legends?

Posted by John Wittenborn on 12-13-2008 06:31 AM:

Don,

I had never heard that, or if I had I must have forgotten. Bud Johnson owned Banjo before James Merchant bought him, & they hunted in these Hunts around here pretty regular, & Nelsons Butch was hunted around here occasionally, & I never heard that. But like I said before back then, WHO KNOWS.

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Posted by ohme on 12-13-2008 01:26 PM:

when we start talking about dogs 30+ years ago, i don't know how accurate their papers were.

Posted by Michael Taynor on 12-13-2008 02:10 PM:

Rutan's Bear Creek Princess

Look through Coonhound Bloodlines and American Cooner and count the dogs that go back to Owens Hardwood Bozo, well over half the dogs we have today.

MT

Posted by Ralph Williams on 12-13-2008 02:14 PM:

Skean's Dolly

Without her there would be no Sackett JR!! We can see what he has done for the Walker bred.

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Posted by Big Bawler on 12-13-2008 03:19 PM:

im not a walker guy but where is nightheat abby and nightheat dixie?
both had a big impact on the walkers of today.

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Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-14-2008 01:06 AM:

With some of these females mentioned it will be interesting to see how many of the 10 dogs in the poll is in their pedigrees.

Posted by HistoryNutt on 12-14-2008 09:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tiffany62193
I know that these females are not on your list but, they are real good. GRNTCH PR Slippery Rock Penny, NTCH PR Slippery Rock Dixie, GRNTCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Queen, GRNTCH GRCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Anna, and GRNTCH PR Nye's Sensational Sassy. In my Next Generation News from February you can read about them

Tiffany, thank you for your post.

I have always said "To Know Where You Are Going You Need To Know Where You Have Been."

when it comes to breeding these Walker Hounds.

With the Poll I was limited to only 10 names. There are more that deserves to be on the list. This is about what makes up the foundation of the breed. 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago it was a lot different then what it is today.

The good that is of today is because of the good that was from the past.

Doing a real quick look of one of your examples GRNTCH GRCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Anna. Of the dogs in the poll Anna goes back to
Bixler's Supreme Sally 2 times,
Hershberger's Texas Babe 2 times,
House's Queen 4 times,
White River Rowdy,
Johnson's Kansas Rose,
House's Queen Lou,
Bear Creek Princess,
Lone Pine Lady,

It is late and I am doing a lot of this from memory. I will try to research her more in the next couple of days. But here she has 8 of the 10 females listed and at least 3 of them more then once.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 12-14-2008 03:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Hmmm ... biggest influence? Are you asking in general? See one female may have a bigger influence just due to one offspring.

How about a female's influence that had many top offspring? I would like to see the females that had more than 1 lucky roll of the genetic dice.

That's simple Larry...

I can think of one that I'm aware of without even trying hard...

Logan's Wild Julie....

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Posted by on 12-14-2008 04:55 PM:

How can there be a list of special females without including Logan's Wild Julie, or Schmersal's Stylish Queen?
I'm sure some of these females listed left they're mark but other than spitting out a certain pup that went on to become a stud dog there really isn't anything real remarkable.
Julie & Queen reproduced reproducers. Each has definately influenced the breed.
Nutt, you're probably right, the females on your list surely can be found way back on many pedigrees but I still feel some females like Queen & Julie and maybe some more recent have really influenced the breed, maybe more so than some of those other females.
Good topic!

Posted by Randy Tallon on 12-14-2008 06:10 PM:

You're right about Julie, but, look at the whole litter that Julie was in. (Wateree Rex, Eileen and memory fails me on the rest) Jill should get as much acolade, if not more, as Julie. Julie did cross well with a few different dogs. If you look back you're going to see River Bend Flag, Hardwood Bozo, Hillbilly Mac, just to name a few of the different lines that made substantial crosses. One of the crosses that would have made some noise was a cross with Demon. I believe the whole litter met untimely deaths (struck by lightning on the chain, hit by a car...e.t.c). I hunted with one that you thought was running a deer on every track he ran. He, unfortunately, was one hit by a car. I believe Jill was a driving force in that line.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 12-14-2008 08:06 PM:

Guess I'm not familiar with Julie's littermates....never really did that much research into them.

But I can't think of a female that had MORE influence over the Walker breed than Julie....

Okay...so we commonly know that she was the dam to Logan's Wild Clover, the root of the "Clover Line"...
How many of you have heard of Lone Pine Patches? She is a daughter of Julie. She went on to be the dam of Night Heat Dixie, the dam of Rat Attack. Of course, we blindly give Sackett Jr. all of the credit for that success.... How about Treadwell's Hardwood Logan, another son of Julie, who then went on to produce Hard Knockin Stylish Hayes....

So out of the Bozo cross...we came out with Clover, Rat Attack, and Hayes... Take that Clover, and cross it back on Hayes, and you have Stylish Harry....Basically line breeding on Julie.

Take the Bozo Cross, and you get Clover, then take the same female (Julie) and cross her on River Bend Flag...you get Logan's Wild Jeannie....Now take a son of Clover, and a Daugher of the Flag X Julie Cross, you get a world champion, Tony's Wild Joey, and her reproducing littermate brother....Tony's Wild Clover.

Those of you that follow the "River Bend" may recognize a dog by the name of Creek Ridge Sky. Sky was a littermate to Logan's Wild Jeannie dog...and went on to be quite the reproducer of his time as well.

Yes, Stylish Queen certainly had some impact, but if you look long and hard, you will find Logan's Wild Julie in the pedigree of "just about" every famous son or daughter of Queen....

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Posted by Tiffany Ealy on 12-14-2008 09:42 PM:

Your welcome I just figured I would mention them to you.

quote:
Originally posted by HistoryNutt
Tiffany, thank you for your post.

I have always said "To Know Where You Are Going You Need To Know Where You Have Been."

when it comes to breeding these Walker Hounds.

With the Poll I was limited to only 10 names. There are more that deserves to be on the list. This is about what makes up the foundation of the breed. 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago it was a lot different then what it is today.

The good that is of today is because of the good that was from the past.

Doing a real quick look of one of your examples GRNTCH GRCH PR Schmersal's Stylish Anna. Of the dogs in the poll Anna goes back to
Bixler's Supreme Sally 2 times,
Hershberger's Texas Babe 2 times,
House's Queen 4 times,
White River Rowdy,
Johnson's Kansas Rose,
House's Queen Lou,
Bear Creek Princess,
Lone Pine Lady,

It is late and I am doing a lot of this from memory. I will try to research her more in the next couple of days. But here she has 8 of the 10 females listed and at least 3 of them more then once.

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