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-- Rule Proposal #4 (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=224668)

Rule Proposal #4

PROPOSAL 4

Delete that portion of Rule 11 which states, “However, if dog(s) are already tree, do not release any dogs. Replace it with:

Handler(s) have the option to release dog(s) if dog(s) are declared treed as long as at least one dog is holding track open. UEBFA


Leave it the way it already is... You may never be able to move to a fresh spot to hunt if this rule is changed.

__________________
Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

It would keep you from being leash locked for 45 minutes while you go from tree to tree. I like the proposal.

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Tim Hickman

I like this rule proposal. I hate having to leash my dog while we walk to another tree with a dog beating a track to death.

I hope it PASSES.....

Sure would take care of bucket hunters...........lol........let them hunt! Unlock the leash rule and throw the buckets away..lol

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Plott Your Hunts!

Why would you want to cut your dog loose after others have just run all over the land.

It is not a good proposal for guides who have to spot hunt and it also will keep people like me from guiding because I dont have enough land in any 1 place that 4 dogs can make trees for 2 hours without getting out of the area.

__________________
Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

Dale, I thought the same thing when AKC came out with their cut'em off every tree rule. I was the first to say it wouldn't work in my part of the country. Three years later I'm thinking it is the only way to go. You never know how many coons you can tree in a 20 acre patch until you start recutting off trees over and over. And you can still get out whenever you need to by callimg time. Fact is if you got just one boohooing track wallerer on your cast now, you are just as stuck in the same place. PKC has always had this rule and it works everywhere, no problem.

One other point....UKC's version makes recasting an option, not mandatory. I don't like that part but it should make it more acceptable to those who are worried about not being able to get out.

What happens if one handler cuts his dog loose and ten minutes later another dog is leashed and that handler says he doesnt want to cut loose, and ten minutes later handler three gets his dog and recast. does the second handler get scratched for not hunting his dog. According to the proposal (handlers decision) the judge would have no authority to scratch as long as a dog was on the tree during the time that the handler refuses to recast. The handler could finish out the last 30 minutes without recasting and still win the hunt with no problem.

__________________
Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Dale, I thought the same thing when AKC came out with their cut'em off every tree rule. I was the first to say it wouldn't work in my part of the country. Three years later I'm thinking it is the only way to go. You never know how many coons you can tree in a 20 acre patch until you start recutting off trees over and over. And you can still get out whenever you need to by callimg time. Fact is if you got just one boohooing track wallerer on your cast now, you are just as stuck in the same place. PKC has always had this rule and it works everywhere, no problem.

One other point....UKC's version makes recasting an option, not mandatory. I don't like that part but it should make it more acceptable to those who are worried about not being able to get out.

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Mike Gibson

I have hunted 7 or 8 nites out of Shelbyville over the years in both PKC and AKC hunts recasting to treed dogs. Never seen or heard of it causing any kind of problem.

JIM

You either got lucky enough to draw out with dogs that didn't hunt that hard or had one of the about 2 guides we have that can hunt one place for 2 hrs.

Since we have held some akc hunts I assure you there are plenty of stories to be told of how it caused problems. This rule makes it almost impossible to call time out unless all dogs are on the same tree.

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Mike Gibson

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE CHANGE THIS RULE!!!

The whole idea of a competion hunt is to see what dog can tree the most coon in 2 hrs. Why should the dog that trees a coon faster then the others be held on a leash and lose hunting time to score the slower dogs? What really aggrivates me is when you keep a dog on the leash to score split tree(s) while somones pride and joy runs dinasourse around a 1/2 acre section for 40 minutes and then decides to fall treed before you can recast. If old "speedy" happens to have a first strike and has a coon your beat!!! It only took the first dog 10 minutes to tree a coon with 2nd strike and the last dog takes 40 minutes to tree one but yet he's awarded the cast win for being the better dog?? Let the first dog hunt and see how many coon he can tree instead of punishing him for being to quick!

__________________
Nite Ch Smith's Stylish Daisy
GRNITE CH GRCH PR Robinson's Red Lindsay

Thats right, go on and turn your dog loose while another dog is treeing and strike your dog because you have to and let your dog go back the dog whose tree has already closed and look at a coon and when you get minused for the coon being seen dont go back to the clubhouse crying that you should not be minused because you recasted after the other dog was already treed.

__________________
Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedBones4me
Thats right, go on and turn your dog loose while another dog is treeing and strike your dog because you have to and let your dog go back the dog whose tree has already closed and look at a coon and when you get minused for the coon being seen dont go back to the clubhouse crying that you should not be minused because you recasted after the other dog was already treed.

---

Gibbo, AKC's rule has no problem calling timeout anytime you need to move to a new area. My guess is that your judge or cast didn't fully understand the rules.
Also, the UKC rule change is not the same as AKC's rule, it is the same as PKC's rule on recasting and we been doing it in PKC everywhere in Indiana including Shelby for many years without problem. And lastly, UKC's version makes the casting a handlers option, not mandatory. What could be the problem.

Jim,

I have hunted down at Shelby and I would not recast my dog there. I have only hunted at one drop out of UKC Walker Days several years ago at Columbiaville that I would have thought safe to recast.

In fact, I hate to hunt in Indiana. I have driven down there several times over the years only to withdraw my dog without cutting him loose. The last time I went to Wyatt the guide took the cast to a woods that had a freeway on the north end and a highway on the west side. They cut loose within a 1/4 mile of the highway on the west. I am nervous enough without recasting.

I hate recasting. I truly don't know how you guys hunt down there.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Gibbo, AKC's rule has no problem calling timeout anytime you need to move to a new area. My guess is that your judge or cast didn't fully understand the rules.
Also, the UKC rule change is not the same as AKC's rule, it is the same as PKC's rule on recasting and we been doing it in PKC everywhere in Indiana including Shelby for many years without problem. And lastly, UKC's version makes the casting a handlers option, not mandatory. What could be the problem.

---

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Mike Gibson

My understanding was that it was the handlers option. I'm fairly sure a non-hunting guide isn't going to have any say in the matter since they are not a cast member.

The issue of doing what the guide says goes both ways. I have seen that thing abused every way imaginable. You can't legislate that problem away.

You know, if it gets to where the hunting spots are that hard to come by and it is that hard or impossible to get guides, then your club may have reached a point where they can no longer put on the hunts anymore. You can't have a nite hunt without freecasting hounds. Fact of life.

quote:

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Originally posted by RedBones4me
Thats right, go on and turn your dog loose while another dog is treeing and strike your dog because you have to and let your dog go back the dog whose tree has already closed and look at a coon and when you get minused for the coon being seen dont go back to the clubhouse crying that you should not be minused because you recasted after the other dog was already treed.

---

__________________
Nite Ch Smith's Stylish Daisy
GRNITE CH GRCH PR Robinson's Red Lindsay

Jim

I assure you if I am a non-hunting guide and I say we need to handle these dogs. And they don't do it they will find themselves another guide. I will not risk losing hunting priviledges over a few plus points. I will do every thing I can to be fair in this situation. I have scored trees and let others score trees in situations where I probably shouldn't have and had to do a lot of butt kissing to keep hunting spots because of it. Even though I agree that this has been abused I still believe that in the end the guide should make the call. This problem is only going to get worse in the future

I hope you realize how lucky you are to have unlimited places to hunt and not have to worry about losing spots.

I myself consider myself lucky. I work for a local fertilizer company and have a good relationship with most of the local farmers, but everyone doesn't have that luxury.

__________________
Mike Gibson

Hey, you don't have to convince me! I have no doubt you are a fair and honest guide, odds are you may have guided me some time in the past. But what good does that do for the guy who draws a crooked guide that is doing nothing but working for his buddy who may also be the judge? All of this is kinda moving off-topic anyway. Again, there is no rule against calling timeout if the dogs go on posted land reguardless of which way this rule gets settled. You seem to feel that the recasting is written in stone with no other altrnatives. That isn't the way it is. Rule 8(a) will prevail in any case.

PKC has had this rule as long as they have been around. They have hunts six nights a week and it seems to work for them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedBones4me
Thats right, go on and turn your dog loose while another dog is treeing and strike your dog because you have to and let your dog go back the dog whose tree has already closed and look at a coon and when you get minused for the coon being seen dont go back to the clubhouse crying that you should not be minused because you recasted after the other dog was already treed.

---

You people are out of your minds if you think that I will believe everyone who hunts has a dog that wont back another.
If you just hunted a 20 acre block and your dog got treed, you leash him and another dog gets treed further in and you cut your dog loose.
If he smells the track on the way into the woods and doesnt go tree with the other dog then maybe you should let someone else train your dogs because you are training them to not tree a coon that they smell a track for just because there is another dog already on the tree.

__________________
Dale Crigger
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

Of course we are out of our minds. Was that ever even in question????