UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- breeding son to dam is this to close (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=163478)

breeding son to dam is this to close

would you try it are not. if yes or no please tell me y

__________________
Dewayne Elliott



'ELLIOTTS NONTIPICUL KY TIPPIE'

LIne breeding is one thing, inbreeding is another. Wouldn't do it.

__________________
Bryan J.

SAVE THE COON, HUNT WITH A HOUND!

I agree, this is too close for me.

LOL, most time the definition is acheived by the success of the cross. If the cross works great and produces some real nice hounds, it's called linebreeding. When the same cross produces mediocre pups, it's called inbreeding! Son to Mom seems too tight for me but, what do I know?

I personally would not do it. But, I have heard of it being done. The results usually gets both ends of the abilities. some almost totally untrainable, others doing very well.
Just my observation.

__________________
Allbluez51@aol.com
Gone, But not forgotten!
Ch Gr Nite Ch Nolan Creek Go-Yonder Rowdy (Grandson of Spare Time Spanky)
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chief's Pride (Grandson and greatgrandson to Smokey River Chief)
Dual Ch Nolan Creek Thundering Apache
Nite Ch Gr Ch Nolan Creek Blue Sable
Dual Ch Nolan Crk Diamond HTX2

Still Standing Proud!!
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chug-A-Lug
Gr CH Nolan Creek Pride's Joy
Ch Nolan Creek Lonesome Dove

Nolan Creek Blue Chug-A-Lug Jr HTX
Ch Nolan Creek Blue Kara
Newest: Ch Nolan Creek Hammering Spanky (Hammer XIII X Sady Lady)

With exceptional dogs it works

Yes, I've done this & the result has been VERY GOOD.
I wouldn't consider this unless I'm familiar with ALL the dogs for the last 3 generations & know for a FACT there are no conformation or temperament problems to worry about. The advantage of such a breeding is that the litter will be uniform in most charactaristics and that when these pups are used for breeding they'll be more inclined to produce their own likeness.
I would ONLY do this type of breeding with EXEPTIONAL candidates with known lineage.

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

son to dam

It doesnt hurt a thing. Its just about like breeding any two dogs. I just did it awhile back and plan on breeding one of these males back to her again making the pups 7/8ths the original dam. Folks do it every day with mixed results just like they do when they breed two totally unrelated dogs. You oughta try if you like her that much and dont want to lose what you got. Very rarely will you see any complications at all. Breed hard, cull hard partner.

How about breeding full brother and sisters. Anybody ever done this? What results should someone expect to see, 5 legs, 2 heads, etc.lol

__________________
Dutch Hollow Kennels

Home of:

Grand Nite CH CH Thorson's Tree'n Blue Dutch RIP
Grand Nite CH CH Thorson's Sweet Blue Brandy RIP
Grand Nite Ch Dutch and janes blue Girl

http://dutch32ia.tripod.com/

I've hunted 2 pups from 2 different father/daughter crosses. They were both common. I don't want another.

bro/sis

I know of a few breeding like this with no undesirable results. I believe John Wick told me one time that he did this 3 or maybe even 4 generations in a row. You would have to read his book though or call him to find out cause I dont rightly remember.

matter of fact

I just remembered. I own and 8 year old Kemmer gyp right now that will tree you both coon and squirrel everytime you take her to the woods that is by Coldwater's Pistol out of Coldwater's Sweetie who are brother and sister. She has no health problems or disposition problems at all and just had another litter of pups not 2 months ago. Dont knock until ya try it.

Walker hounds are crazy already, shouldn't make much difference.

I would say if you have certain health problems in a dog and breed what you are talking about it would intensify bad too. Like loose eyes bad feet etc.

Corey maybe if this happened the 5 legged dog could run a track faster!

__________________
Bryan J.

SAVE THE COON, HUNT WITH A HOUND!

INBREEDING

YOU'RE GONNA GET WHATEVER YOU ALREADY HAVE. REMEMBER , SOME TRAITS ARE HIDDEN , SO YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE DOGS IN PAST GENERATIONS. I ALWAYS WANTED A TWO-HEADED TREE DOG. NEVER GOT ONE. LOL.

Too close for me.

__________________
Home of 2011 Alabama State Champion and 2015 UKC Triple Crown Runner up. GRNITE CH Split Treeing Abby and 2015 Alabama State CH, 2016 Alabama Hall Of Fame CH GRNITE CH Indian Creek Copper Top (Top Gun)
"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
-Paul 'Bear' Bryant
'Oakmulgee Creek Kennels'

Here is the key to remember.

If it works out, and you get a litter of good pups...it's called line breeding.

If it is a disaster and you get a litter of idiots that could not tree a coon in a coon zoo...it's called inbreeding.

Seriously,

You ask if it is "okay". They are your dogs, and only you can determine if these two individual merit crossing mother to son. This type of breeding is not for the faint of heart...cause you just might find out what your dogs are "made of".

Know that you can not "recreate" a dog, but you can reproduce traits in a litter. Color, mouth, personality, and to a minor degree hunting style....

Also know that you will be doubling on the good..AND THE BAD that exist in both dogs....all the skeltons may come out of the closet on you.

It's your choice, there is nothing "wrong" or immoral about it...it's a breeding tool, but not the only tool in the toolbox!

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

If I liked both alot, I mean alot. I would do it.

If they had it all, independence, mouth, accuracy, start and finsh early, not ill, not slow, then I would.

Ask yourself these question. Do they out perform most dogs most nights, do they have better than average mouths, were they natural born coon treeing machine?????????? If not they probably shouldn't be bred anyway.

I would say probably more bad then good will come from a cross like this. JMO though

__________________
Bryan J.

SAVE THE COON, HUNT WITH A HOUND!

Danny Perez has 6 four week old puppies out of Dual Grand Smoken Magic and Gr Nt Ch Buffalo Creek Too Tuff Betty. Son to Mother cross. Danny has been responsible for the breeding of several nt ch's , We'll see if he knows more about breeding than the internet experts.

Won't brreding like this cause deffencies in dogs? I sure don't know from experiance just what I hear. And we all know everything heard isn't true.
Just don't seem right. Not saying maybe it won't work but sounds odd!

Whats UKC say anymore about breeding this close?

__________________
Bryan J.

SAVE THE COON, HUNT WITH A HOUND!

quote:

---

Originally posted by BRYAN J
Won't brreding like this cause deffencies in dogs? I sure don't know from experiance just what I hear. And we all know everything heard isn't true.
Just don't seem right. Not saying maybe it won't work but sounds odd!

Whats UKC say anymore about breeding this close?

---

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

It would take many, many, generations of inbreeding to get severe birth defects.

Im hunting pups out of a father X daughter cross right now.

Both will tree coon, both have quirks I dont care for, just like any other dog. Both are healthy and normal acting.

As you can see by the replies here, a lot of folks will reject the idea without knowing or caring to know the facts.

For this reason, you make a cross like this, you will have a litter of pups on your hands that will be unsellable.

NOT TO CLOSE

SIRE-FATHER

DAM-DAUGHTER


HERE IS ONE OUT OF THE FATHER DAUGHTER MATING.

HERE IS THE ABOVE DOGS SISTER. SHE WAS SHOT OFF THE TREE LAST FALL.
.
ROCKY ALLEN OF HANOVER IL. OWNED THE 3RD ONE. HE HAD 3 BEST OF SHOWS AND WAS STARTED GOOD IN THE WOODS. HE GOT KILLED IN FRONT OF ROCKY'S HOUSE. IF THE 2 DOGS YOU ARE GOING TO USE HAVE ALOT THAT YOU LIKE ABOUT THEM AND VERY LITTLE THAT YOU DON'T, BY ALL MEANS DO IT. IF THERE ARE ANY MAJOR FAULTS ON EITHER SIDE, DON'T.

SHOWN BELOW ARE 2 FEMALES FROM A MOTHER SON CROSS.

THIS ONE IS OWNED BY TED(OLD RIVERS) HERE ON THE BOARD. TED IS FROM OHIO/ PENN AREA. HE LIKES HER ALOT

THIS ONE IS OWNED BY BILL HUBBARD OF OHIO.

__________________
Blue Dog 1

Perry, those examples totally disprove any "MYTHS" of genetic deficiencies.

I cannot recall exactly and hopefully someone like Mackie, Dave, or the Hermans can clarify this for me but didn t Warson's Trapper have some outstanding results from inbreeding.

I wouldn't try one that close, horse people did it many years ago religiously and that is how HYPP developed. HORRIBLE to have a horse go out that way, but very common with the Impressive bloodline due to close in-breeding such as this. In-breeding does maginify the good traits, but also the bad. If there are ANY faults with either dog that you don't like plan on them to be worse with their pups.

I'm considering doing a 1/2 brother and sister cross next year, but waited this heat cycle on the girl so I can think about it some more and give the dogs a year to see if they are really that good, or if breeding outside that line wouldn't work better.

__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
__________________________
www.ansfarms.net

CH 'PR' Cox's Absolute Envy
CH 'PR' White Liar's Just A Digit
Hillbilly Bones

Gone but Not Forgotten:
CH 'PR' Cox's Sweet Mountain Magic 2005-2010