UKC Forums - huntinh all dogs togerther?

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Posted by get um redtick on 08-02-2007 09:45 PM:

huntinh all dogs togerther?

i just want to kno what all you houndsmen think about hunting curs with hounds?

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Posted by ROCK N ROLL on 08-02-2007 10:13 PM:

NO PROBLEM HERE !!!

If they open on track and tree, let them in. It's been a few years but i've hunted with some good leopard curs. One of the best coon dogs i have ever seen was a black mouth cur. When she struck, she opened every time her heart beat and had a awesome locate and a 130 bark a min. tree dog. Probably the most accurate dog ive seen. Her name was CASSIE and was owned by VYRL KEETER of MUSKOGEE,OKLA. I believe she won and/or placed in the NKC world hunt several times. I would love to have one just like her. She's been dead for several years now, but was as nice as they come. RONNIE HILL

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Posted by get um redtick on 08-03-2007 01:31 AM:

i just want to kno who wants them together snd who dont. thanks for telling me what you think

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Posted by GalaxieMan on 08-03-2007 06:25 AM:

Yes as long as they open on track.A coondog is a coondog cur hound or other wise.If ukc is going to reg. them they should be alloud to hunt in the night hunts. What can it hurt?

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-03-2007 07:05 AM:

It dont scare me none. Looks like there's room for everything.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-03-2007 07:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Russell Boyette
It dont scare me none. Looks like there's room for everything.

Me either and I could care less or not if they open on track..... That just leaves more points for me..

Posted by Jerry West on 08-03-2007 12:45 PM:

Not Me

I don't think the curs: Blackmouth, Leopard, Yellow, Jack Russel, or whatever, have any business being in the woods with hounds. It has nothing to do with ability or compitition. BUT, IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHY WE BREED HOUNDS.... BECUASE WE ENJOY LISTENING TO HOUNDS TRACK AND TREE A COON. I'm not interested in listening to squeky-mouthed, silent trailing, 130 bark tree dog curs. I don't care if they tree 4 sacks full of coons. that's not why I go coon hunting. THEY ARE VARMIT DOGS, NOT COON DOGS. If a person wants to "meat" or 'hide' hunt, the cur dog is the way to go, but for the pleasure of listening to a hound work a track, locate on the tree, and turn over to a solid tree bark, WE MUST NEVER ALLOW THIS GREAT GULF TO BE CROSSED BY CURS HUNTING IN COMPITITION. \ ENOUGH SAID.

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Posted by Dan Edwards on 08-03-2007 02:23 PM:

cur dogs

Your ignorance came bubbling out there didnt it. Comparing a "cur" dog to a terrier is ridiculous. While I admit my curs do not generally open on track nor locate the way a hound does they do open on track and most of them will develop a locate. They are usually a a 3rd or 4th type strike dog which should not scare anybody who has a competition style hound. They usually throw out a single locate bark which is not very easy to automatically tree your dog on because they check a tree most of the time way too much for competition type hunt formats. They do chop on track though and they do develop a locate eventually if hunted hard enough and long enough. I have hunted curs against hounds for the last few years a lot. I own both. My curs almost always get out struck. While they are a lot faster track dogs overall than most hounds I have seen, their slowness to locate and slam a tree usually puts them at actually treeing at about the same time most hounds do. If you get an exceptionally fast tracking hound that locates like most competition style hounds with speed and confidence, you are usually screwed even with the best of cur dogs. There are curs out there though that will just whip your best hound most of the nights out cause they got some uncanny way about them that is hard to explain but of course there are hounds out there just like that. There aint as much difference between different breeds of track and tree dogs as there is difference in the breed itself. A good coon dog is a good coon dog no matter what the breed.

Posted by get um redtick on 08-03-2007 03:04 PM:

i hunt hounds and my lep cur. my lep cur runs and sounds just like a hound he has a locater bark he is not silent in no way. so you cant hunt them from the houndsmen not wanting to be beat by a non hound.

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-03-2007 03:19 PM:

I dont care if i draw a cur, fiest, terrier, or cow dog. All i can do is prepare my dog the best i can, and call him the best i can. If a dog that trees more coons beats him then i we didnt do our job. I like listening to a dog on track, but i would just as soon hear a semi-silent cur dog as some of these barking idiots people drag to the hunts. Besides, PKC allows hunting both and i can only remember seeing 1 cur at a hunt. If anything, people might think twice about guiding to a feeder bucket with a cur dog on the cast.

Posted by ItsOlMander on 08-03-2007 03:23 PM:

i believe someone posted on another thread about this that PKC allows curs to hunt with hounds.

i personally think hounds with hounds and curs with curs. nothing agaisnt the curs but most curs dont open on track, and just have a different style of hunting. theyre nice dogs on a range of game, but theyre not hounds. different types hunting, different breeds of dogs.

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Posted by Dan Edwards on 08-03-2007 04:25 PM:

Russell

You brought up an interesting point just now. I too would rather listen to a tighter mouthed honest dog than a liar or a babbler and there is a difference between them two also. By the way, I have seen on more than one occasion also, bootick type cur dogs. It makes me want to puke but I have seen them. I am a fan of the Walker and English breed because I think they are top notch coondog breeds overall, but I am also a huge fan of the Mountain Cur breed cause I have seen some very neat or interesting things out of these dogs too. I hear good things about some Leopard and Stephens dogs also but just dont have much experience with them. With all this being said there aint no way in the world that any breed of cur dogs overall can even come close to competing with today's competition hound consistently night after night but there are some out there that will give em hell. This same thing can be said though about some of the hound breeds out there right now too. Results and facts are just that, some folks like it and others ignore facts and just get angry and argue with emotion instead of what can be seen plain as day with their own eyes. Me personally, I dont get angered over these breed rivalry things. I just take a good look around and it dont take long.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-03-2007 06:35 PM:

Re: Russell

quote:
Originally posted by Dan Edwards
You brought up an interesting point just now. I too would rather listen to a tighter mouthed honest dog than a liar or a babbler and there is a difference between them two also. By the way, I have seen on more than one occasion also, bootick type cur dogs. It makes me want to puke but I have seen them. I am a fan of the Walker and English breed because I think they are top notch coondog breeds overall, but I am also a huge fan of the Mountain Cur breed cause I have seen some very neat or interesting things out of these dogs too. I hear good things about some Leopard and Stephens dogs also but just dont have much experience with them. With all this being said there aint no way in the world that any breed of cur dogs overall can even come close to competing with today's competition hound consistently night after night but there are some out there that will give em hell. This same thing can be said though about some of the hound breeds out there right now too. Results and facts are just that, some folks like it and others ignore facts and just get angry and argue with emotion instead of what can be seen plain as day with their own eyes. Me personally, I dont get angered over these breed rivalry things. I just take a good look around and it dont take long.

Well, in my opinion, there arent enough people out there hunting any kind of a treedog. I dont think we have enough folks to snub other treeing breeds.

Posted by Dckasten on 08-03-2007 07:12 PM:

NO WAY, WHY HUNT A SQUIRREL DOG WITH A COON DOG?

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 08-03-2007 07:20 PM:

i think

it is a good thing!! it would mean earning more perforemance points if it helped raise the entries.. in the local hunts anyway..

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Posted by astringer on 08-03-2007 07:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dckasten
NO WAY, WHY HUNT A SQUIRREL DOG WITH A COON DOG?

Because not all curs are just squirrel dogs.

Posted by Gibbo on 08-03-2007 08:15 PM:

Hunting hounds with curs

I hunt only hounds, but can't understand why anybody would be opposed to hunting these dogs together in hunts.

With the low turnout at the hunts these days I think we need all the entries we can get.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-03-2007 08:21 PM:

I can say one thing for sure. I have seen a hound and cur hunted together on coons, and at the end of the night there was a truckbed full of coons. If i was a hide hunter that is the route i would go. I have also seen the same hound and cur work together treeing squirrels and it was a sight. Up around mid day is when the hound would really shine as far as being a little colder nosed, and being able to work out an old squirrel track. I just dont understand what the big deal is with hunting them together in a hunt. I mean its not like your breeding them. I would like to hear an better arguement against hunting them together. Something besides thats the way its always been done.

Posted by on 08-03-2007 09:08 PM:

I really don't see the point in hunting curs with / against the hounds. I'd hate to see the NH rules tweaked to suit the curs if it were to happen. I would not oppose it but I don't see the point in pursueing it.
I would like to see clubs be able to offer cur/fiest events run consectutively with the hound events. I would maybe add some entrys and help clubs get a couple more guides that might normally not help with hound events because they run curs and vice versa. I don't see why UKC couldn't take an additional $15 for a cur/fiest NH and another $15 for cur/ fiest BS just like they do when a hound event has WR's, FT's and BS's added to a NH. The Cur/Fiest BS could be held before or after the Hound BS just like some do with Youth shows, and a Cur/Fiest cast could be assembled for the NH. All it would be is another separate report for the MOH's and BSJ's. It would help clubs by date having to schedule another date, use the same MOH and BSJ and same kitchen help. Even if UKC would allow Curs/Fiests to compete against the Hounds, how many are going to show up? I doubt that you'd get 3 per event. I don't doubt that there are a few curs out there that could compete on a high level against hounds but I don't think it is the norm. Offer them they're own game but do it at the same time as Hound events.... it would increase attendance, fellowship, and be good for the clubs that would decide to offer it.

Posted by ROCK N ROLL on 08-03-2007 09:17 PM:

Re: Hunting hounds with curs

quote:
Originally posted by Gibbo
I hunt only hounds, but can't understand why anybody would be opposed to hunting these dogs together in hunts.

With the low turnout at the hunts these days I think we need all the entries we can get.

I agree totally. In my area, we could definitely use the entries. To those opposed,you can draw 3 cur dogs and beat those squirrel dogs at night and get a win on your dog, or maybe it's the thought of getting waxed by a cur dog that is so disturbing to some. ???

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Posted by ohiobawler20 on 08-03-2007 11:09 PM:

HOUNDS

HOUNDS VS. HOUNDS, BUT LIKE GA DAWG SAID, IF THEY LET THEM IN, ITS MORE POINTS FOR ME!
KIDD

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Posted by Brian V on 08-03-2007 11:35 PM:

We look for different things in hounds than in curs and vise versa.
Do they hunt together and go by different rules. Ex: what if a hound and a cur get treed together on a possum or squirrel. Or do we go by the hound rules. Hounds would get an unfair advantage on strike points if the cur was silent or nearly silent. They just don't operate quite the same and they shouldn't

Just something to think about.

I havent made up my mind

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Posted by Jerry West on 08-04-2007 03:45 AM:

What a mess!

Where are you guys getting such a strange bunch of ideas? Hounds and curs are two totally different types of dogs. Yes, some curs are open trailing, some are straight on coon, some are fast on the track, some are great tree dogs, and in most casses they will tree more 'varmits' than the average open trailing, track working, locating, solid tree dog hound. BUT, they are still curs, and THEY ARE NOT HOUNDS. Why would you want to listen to cur mouths? Our sport of coon hunting is about the enjoyment of hunting with open tailing, tracking, and treeing hounds. It seem like some of our 'population' has gone nuts over how fast they can tree one, two, three, four, or five. Or even worse, how many barks per minute their slobber mouth tree dog can bark. This fork in the road is leading away from a true sport of houndsmen, and headed to the ruination of that sport.

Knock and mock my words if you like, but I've been at this sport for over 50 years. Seen changes in types of hounds, changes in the rules for compitition, and changes in hunters. Some changes for the good, some for the bad. But this idea of hunting curs in compitition with hounds boarders on "treason"! (LOL)

Posted by Va&MDPlottDogs on 08-04-2007 04:06 AM:

I like the idea. A scenthound is a scenthound, and should be allowed to hunt with other scenthounds. No matter if its a blue dog, and black dog, walker, cur or any of the other scenthounds.
There is more than one silent hound in the hunts, and god knows theres plenty on treedogs. To many d@mn treedogs if you ask me. Normally when a cur trees you gonna see game. Thats just how they operate.
The rules have been tweaked(as someone put it). Every year for years and years. This happens because hunts have evolved. A hound thats winning everything today, wouldnt win a pile of crap 25 years ago. Same as a top dog from then couldnt hold his own in todays hunts. So whats the big deal about another d@mn TWEAK. Oh I know, its because it doesnt benifit your hounds.
Consider this an open invite to anyone that thinks a cur isnt a coon dog, and cant/shouldnt compete with hounds. Lets go hunting. I'll take my sorry leapord, and you bring your best. Hot, dry, wet, cold, raining, or snowing, it doesnt matter when ever your ready just come on and we'll hit the woods.

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-04-2007 04:10 AM:

So the main arguements are

- The cur will be at a strike point disadvantage

- The cur will be more likely to tree off game in a hunt

- We never have hunted them together so why start now

Folks, i dont think the cur people are asking us to change Nite hunt rules, they're just aking to be allowed to compete. Im sure they now full well the disadvantages, and if they still want to give it a shot then i dont see why the shouldnt be allowed to. It wont hurt my ego to get beat by a cur.

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