UKC Forums - i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

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-- i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=132177)

Posted by rance56 on 01-30-2007 09:58 PM:

i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

if ukc did away with the nt ch degree and pkc did away with circle. points. how many dogs do you know that are kept around by folks cause they know they can win with circle lots of times or put a nt ch degree on a dog and be able to brag about.

and i know alot of gr nites aint all that but i truelly believe you would see alot less junk out of there if folks had to earn theri 100 points then have 5 wins b4 a title was attached to the beggining of their name

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Posted by justpiddlin76 on 01-30-2007 10:05 PM:

how about this

Get rid of strike points and make tree points only 100, 75, 50, and 25. I was just throwin this out there, but there are a lot of ways to improve dogs, but I ain't sure changin the rules in a hunt will do anything.

Posted by rance56 on 01-30-2007 10:08 PM:

Re: how about this

quote:
Originally posted by justpiddlin76
Get rid of strike points and make tree points only 100, 75, 50, and 25. I was just throwin this out there, but there are a lot of ways to improve dogs, but I ain't sure changin the rules in a hunt will do anything.

you would be surpised how many folks by a pup cause its a nice stud the dam is a nt ch, in lots of casses the gyp is junk, take away that nt ch title and the demand goes away and folks start being more demanding.

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Posted by justpiddlin76 on 01-30-2007 10:15 PM:

more

What about grand night? I know of several Grand Nights in my area that I would kill deader than a hammer if I had the chance. They literally cannot tree a coon this time of year, at all.

Posted by mrbluedog on 01-30-2007 11:23 PM:

I would like to see a dog have to go tree a coon by him or her self to get the titles after they have earned enough points and not in there own woods . (jmo)

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Posted by HOBO on 01-30-2007 11:31 PM:

The quality of dogs would get better if everyone would stop making excuses for their dogs. And get them in the woods and off the computer.

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Posted by j.ooten on 01-30-2007 11:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
The quality of dogs would get better if everyone would stop making excuses for their dogs. And get them in the woods and off the computer.

lol...you goin' out tonight...lol

the quality of dogs would go up if people had to live off the money raised from selling the fur their hounds treed throughout the season..

......it would help if people would take pleasure hunting as serious as comp. hunting...IMO

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Posted by HOBO on 01-30-2007 11:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by j.ooten
lol...you goin' out tonight...lol

Are you crazy??? I might miss something good on here.

LOL

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 01-30-2007 11:41 PM:

Mrbluedog

I agree! Hounds should be hunted by themselves and prove that they can run and tree coons without help. I also feel that in order to be a benchshow Champion a hound should have to demonstrate the ability to tree a coon. I know numerous people who have "perfect" show dogs that couldn't tree a coon if their life depended on it. Personally I like a well rounded hound that looks right, by breed standards, and can tree coons on a consistant basis with or without help!

Posted by j.ooten on 01-30-2007 11:41 PM:

same here...hahaha

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-30-2007 11:46 PM:

Re: i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
if ukc did away with the nt ch degree and pkc did away with circle. points. how many dogs do you know that are kept around by folks cause they know they can win with circle lots of times or put a nt ch degree on a dog and be able to brag about.

and i know alot of gr nites aint all that but i truelly believe you would see alot less junk out of there if folks had to earn theri 100 points then have 5 wins b4 a title was attached to the beggining of their name

If there were no NITECH casts then you would have to earn 100 points and then win 5 registered casts? I dont think that would prove anything different. If nothing else, you would have a GRNTCH that was made by hunting against registered dogs.

If circle was done away with, the crooks would be plussing more spider eyes, and honest den trees would be minused.

It will never be perfect, nothing is. Heck, look at the BCS lol

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Posted by GA DAWG on 01-31-2007 12:14 AM:

I think they have improved 10 fold. Atleast the dogs I'm hunting now are 10 times better than what I started with.You would have hated to hunt with me back then.

Posted by rance56 on 01-31-2007 12:33 AM:

Re: Re: i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

quote:
Originally posted by Russell Boyette
If there were no NITECH casts then you would have to earn 100 points and then win 5 registered casts? I dont think that would prove anything different. If nothing else, you would have a GRNTCH that was made by hunting against registered dogs.

If circle was done away with, the crooks would be plussing more spider eyes, and honest den trees would be minused.

It will never be perfect, nothing is. Heck, look at the BCS lol

no, you would be hunting against other dogs that have also earned there 100 points and a first, just no degrees on the papers or titles until you made grand nite.
there are alot of dogs out there thats folks keep them cause they can make a nt ch out of them, which gives them some monetary or ego value, especially a female, cause then they can sell pups, and nt ch females are as easy to sell pups out of as is gr nts in any breed other than walkers.

also, get rid of the buckets in the hunts. and no, a bucket is not like hunting a corn field and a cull puppy can tree a coon off of a bucket. when you see big scores down here in georgia-they are off buckets-big deal.

i would not need my toes to count the dogs that i have hunted with that i feel i could consistantly hunt by their selves and tree coons down here in the south and enjoy doing it

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Posted by Mark V. on 01-31-2007 12:58 AM:

Rance I now know about treeing coons in GA. we went to the winter Classic last week end and we did tree 2 coons but only one in the hunt time. Although I did enjoy the fact that she could tree coons half a mile from solid ground it is NO way to run up the score.LOL

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-31-2007 01:03 AM:

Re: Re: Re: i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
no, you would be hunting against other dogs that have also earned there 100 points and a first, just no degrees on the papers or titles until you made grand nite.
there are alot of dogs out there thats folks keep them cause they can make a nt ch out of them, which gives them some monetary or ego value, especially a female, cause then they can sell pups, and nt ch females are as easy to sell pups out of as is gr nts in any breed other than walkers.

I see what your saying, but wouldnt the status of having the 100 points won, just take the place of the NITECH degree? You will still have the same # of sorry dogs winning the 100 points and the same # of sorry 100 point dogs making GRNTCH.

Seems like its only a walker breed problem, because i see the majority of breeders of the other breeds breeding " 'PR' & CH/GRCH" females. Doesnt seem as though a titled female is as important to the other breeds as it is to walker hunters.

Posted by GA DAWG on 01-31-2007 01:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
Rance I now know about treeing coons in GA. we went to the winter Classic last week end and we did tree 2 coons but only one in the hunt time. Although I did enjoy the fact that she could tree coons half a mile from solid ground it is NO way to run up the score.LOL

And you were in the GOOD part of GA for coons!!!!!! I'm like a kid in a candy store most times when I get to hunt south ga but last weekend something or another had the coons laid up.

Posted by rance56 on 01-31-2007 02:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
Rance I now know about treeing coons in GA. we went to the winter Classic last week end and we did tree 2 coons but only one in the hunt time. Although I did enjoy the fact that she could tree coons half a mile from solid ground it is NO way to run up the score.LOL

mark,

i would imagine if there is one to be treed, your gyp stands bout as good of chance as any out there of treeing it. and to be honest, a dog that can go out and tree a couple of wild coons down here impresses me more than running up big scores on red hot coons.

i guess is what im trying to say is that if the only reason to own a hound was because of what it did during the week, wouldnt alot of folks be looking for something better than what is on the end of their leash now?

ga dawg-dawson forest is about as tough as i have ever seen, sounds like yall had a good year over there though

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Posted by on 01-31-2007 02:24 AM:

Re: Mrbluedog

quote:
Originally posted by wishfulthinkin
I agree! Hounds should be hunted by themselves and prove that they can run and tree coons without help. I also feel that in order to be a benchshow Champion a hound should have to demonstrate the ability to tree a coon. I know numerous people who have "perfect" show dogs that couldn't tree a coon if their life depended on it. Personally I like a well rounded hound that looks right, by breed standards, and can tree coons on a consistant basis with or without help!

It seems to me like the people who claim that a bench show hound should have to tree a coon first are the people who bring these muddy uncontrollable hounds with duck feet to bench shows and are POed when people who prepared their hounds for the show win. Perhaps if people quit concerning themselves so darn much with what other people are doing with their hounds, the breed would be better off. If you don't like a show hound, then don't buy one. Buy a dog that comes from a bloodline you know works for you and that YOU have personally researched. Don't breed your stud to a gyp with minimal hunting ability just for the cash. Cull the dogs that you don't like and be satisfied with the ones you do and leave everyone else alone. That would improve the hunting line a great deal, don't you think?

Posted by Chiggers on 01-31-2007 02:27 AM:

I read all the post and Magazine ads about everyones dogs and I really just cant see how Coonhounds today could get any better. Coons would go extinct.

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Posted by on 01-31-2007 02:33 AM:

Chiggers

I totally agree with you...its amazing how many people out there have perfect hounds. Sure wish I could figure out where they are getting them.

Posted by GA DAWG on 01-31-2007 02:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56

ga dawg-dawson forest is about as tough as i have ever seen, sounds like yall had a good year over there though

We have and some nights were some of the roughest journeys I've been on.We have a buddy hunt thursday night.I think I might guide to the forest!!!!! See what these other dogs are made of.Heck we could not manage but 1 on ocmulgee wma the other night.It was rough.I got ready to go before Mouse decided she needed to cross that big river.You getting to hunt much now that you have moved?

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-31-2007 03:08 AM:

wonder how much better it would get if you
just had to have +++ points in some kennel clubs.

Posted by mrbluedog on 01-31-2007 04:02 AM:

I agree blueticking:it

Posted by jackbob42 on 01-31-2007 04:26 AM:

It don't matter how many times the rules are changed. The dogs aren't gonna change unless the guys hunting them do ! LOL

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Posted by OldFashRed on 01-31-2007 04:33 AM:

Best Idea Yet

UKC can create a better hound by offering each and every dog that gains either a GRCH title or NTCH and GRNTCH title the opportunity to "CERTIFY" the dog by having the owner pay a licensed Judge (say 35$) to view the dog strike, track and hold tree for 5 minutes with the meat by itself...........

In essence create another level of performance....thus folks could at least acknowledge their dog is a coondog for one track and tree.

Then UKC could offer the litter registration fee at a reduction for the litter owner if BOTH the sire and the dam are CERTIFIED.

This would motivate the selling of pups whereby the parents are at least capable of treeing one coon (bear, etc) independently.

In this way UKC would be promoting the true propagation of the coonhound breeds.

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