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-- Why...Why....Why would anyone (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=132152)

Why...Why....Why would anyone

who has hunted in UKC hunts for more than a year or even 6 months not know that a dog returning to a tree already scored is NOT a scratchable offense ?????????????


Had gotten a couple of calls asking if this was in fact a new rule ??????

Don't know why they call me but as far as I know it is not and has not been for as long as I've hunted UKC..........it is a PKC rule but NOT .........UKC

So why would anyone allow it to happen............and why would anyone do it to another handler ??????

Know the rules before you go to a hunt............and those who do know the rules .......... well guess it takes all kinds in this world

And if you got / get beat because you don't know the rules and THINK you got cheated but you did not.................learn the rules before you waste anymore money and complain about something you do not understand

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Its not a rule, but if a dog goes back to the scored tree more than once, they need scratched. It would give the handler a good time to do some "correcting"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Russell Boyette
Its not a rule, but if a dog goes back to the scored tree more than once, they need scratched. It would give the handler a good time to do some "correcting"

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As a MOH I find there are more hunters that don't know all the rules then do. I know some comp. hunters that have studied the rules and know them front and back, usually these are called slick handlers by those who don't know the rules. Then there are slick handlers too. If you think something is scored wrong on a cast question it. You won't always win but the casts you are on will be scored better. My advice is study the rules if you see one that you don't understand talk to the master of hounds at the hunt and get his view. It's suppose to to be honor rules. I sometimes wonder if there is any honor left. It's win at all costs by a few. If you are on a cast and someone cheats and you let it go it's your fault. Remember if the call benefits or goes against your dog if it's wrong and you know it, it's cheating.

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Maybe it is time for UKC to begin holding judges responsible for such obvious cheating. Maybe UKC needs to start a "barred from judgeing" list.

quote:

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Originally posted by 1939
It's suppose to to be honor rules. I sometimes wonder if there is any honor left. It's win at all costs by a few. If you are on a cast and someone cheats and you let it go it's your fault. Remember if the call benefits or goes against your dog if it's wrong and you know it, it's cheating.

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it is the same thing, I always see. Hunters hunt in both KC's and they come up with these quasi pkc rules in a ukc hunt. And they don't they aren't any better in the pkc hunts.

i have seen

alot of times where they cant seem to clear the pkc rules from there head while hunting in a ukc hunt. often causes alot of arguing!!!

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Right on

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Maybe it is time for UKC to begin holding judges responsible for such obvious cheating. Maybe UKC needs to start a "barred from judgeing" list.

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ill tell you what would solve 95% of the ukc problems, if they would stop letting people competeing in the hunt and judge at the same time. i no they do this in bigger hunts but the small ones is where most of the people come up with there arguments about cheating.

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If you cant be in the woods coonhunting you should be dreaming about it. If you cant dream about coonhunting then you should be were it all counts, in the woods.

RECORDS are broken FIRST is forever.

I have seen alot hunters that hunt both and do try to impose pkc rule with a ukc rule. It is up to the judge to control the hunt. If ? acures you should know the rules thats why i carry a rule book in my pocket if needed it comes out right there. If we don't agree we vote if we still don't agree ? mark and then we go huntin. As far as banning judges go lets say a club has a young hunter out there that knows the basic and something happens and he's the judge every hunt is different nothing is the same. ? accure that even some of the veteran hunters can't answer so should he get barred from judgeing if no one is sure. As far as a MOH makin a decsion goes he's not out there he didn't see what happen he just listen and makes a decsion base on the story and the rules at hand. Should he be barred as well. Yes i believe if you judge the cast you should the rules. But some clubs don't have that luxury and use what they can and hen yu hav thse that don't want to judge because they want consitrait on their dog. So you punish on guy for helping you. Just a thought.

I had a "big time PKC" hunter try this on me in a big ukc hunt one night. Unfortunitally for him I am a MOH and do know the rules. He also did not like it when he was scratched cause his dog chose to chase to other dogs around a tree and growl and bite at them in front of the whole cast. LOL


No matter what you hunt know the rules and apply them evenly acrost the board. It makes for a better hunt and it also ensures almost always the best dog wins the cast.

if i understand this correctly, someone got scratched for their dog going back to the same tree, ifso, definelty someone on that cast knew that was wrong and this is the exact reason this sport deserves to die the slow death that it is dying.

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LOL tony i know of a few myself. I think that a MOH shoud have to renew his card every 3 or 4 years or 5 years cause the rules do change and some are still using old rules. Some don't have a clue and some are bias depending on who brings up the ? This system is not perfect and it most likely will never be perfect. But their is steps we could take to make it better. I also believe that a MOH that hunts like you do will be up on the rules better then some MOH. But you alo have those people out there that don't want the responible of being a MOH. So what do you do you go with what you got or just don't have the hunt.

I had top dog in a state hunt down here and my dog walked by a tree with a possum in it and the judge scratched me. And better than that the MOH upheld it!

I see where people think non huntings would solve the problem. I don't agree, most smaller clubs can't find non hunting judges that's why UKC went to hunting judges.I hunted with non hunting judges and it is usually someones buddy. No vote with non hunting judge. I rather hunt with hunting judge at least you have a vote. JMO

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I agree with you there tony if some of these guys have to put up money to ? something it would be amazing on how many people would all of the sudden remember the rules. No more what if or how come and if the guy who paid the money to ? it he should get his money back and he wrong good bye money i bet alot people would studying the rules a whole lot closer.

quote:

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Originally posted by Russell Boyette
Its not a rule, but if a dog goes back to the scored tree more than once, they need scratched. It would give the handler a good time to do some "correcting"

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Maybe it is time for UKC to begin holding judges responsible for such obvious cheating. Maybe UKC needs to start a "barred from judgeing" list.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by tony foley
I am also a master of hounds and i compete more than i sit behind the table. I know of at least one MOH that dont know the rules and has no business carrying a MOH card. I can assure you all the people within a 100 miles of me know who i am talking about !

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I do agree with almost all of what has been said on knowing the rules before you go to the hunt,but I will have to say I didn't know most any rules when I started hunting in the hunts 9 years ago. But boy did I learn. Ensualt and emberessment are most likely the reason the new guy doesn't come back. Very seldom is there a cast with out at least one honest person on it! When we stand up and help the (newbe) he will come back and become one of those honest hunters. So why not let them come play and donate $$$ to our sport and let them learn as they go and we can help them instead of turning them away. I am not the best handle and I am still being tought alot by (slik) good handlers.

quote:

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Originally posted by tony foley
The MOH that have a clue to what is really going on in the timber are the ones that compete themselves. There are some MOH that have not entered a hunt in years and have never fed a hound worth paying a entry fee on. I in no way am dissing UKC but pkc has the right idea with a hunt director and if there is a question put up your money and go to a panel. Lots less bias and i believe more of a fair shake. The paperwork gets done fairly and lots less problems.

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Well, maybe I am just silly in thinking this might work...aren't the rules on the back of the score card? And the last time I check the rule book would easily fit into the back pocket of a pair of jeans...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1939
[B]....."I know some comp. hunters that have studied the rules and know them front and back, usually these are called slick handlers by those who don't know the rules.....

That's the truth. I know more hunters that come back to the club b/c they think someone cheated them and come to find out they went rule by rule.

I think we should inforce the rules more strictly. Maybe some clubs need to have meetings or classes about the rule book....
hey its not really a bad idea for some young hunters and old ones too.


But yeah you got to stay sharp on your rules and it helps me to learn them number by letter, so then before an arguement even starts, I just flip it over and show them.

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Was this the cast that the 15 or 16 year old Kid was on? This is a really good way to help an learn the Youth.

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